CITY_LOVER
Active Member
Hi,
So now that we have a dedicated thread comparing Chicago to Toronto (in a sane way), I would like to bring something up for discussion (which I really hope if OK with the moderators):
I'm a non-white and non-straight male that just recently moved to Toronto (from Calgary) and I like many things about Toronto but a few things that I am not a fan of are quite big (and are negatively impacting my life) and hence my comparison to Chicago (an American city that I feel is fairly close to Toronto overall).
I understand Toronto's current situation (in all contexts) but still I can't fully accept Toronto's infrastructure (poor roads, sidewalks and transit), the fact that things take so long to get done here (i.e. Bloor Street makeover, St. Clair ROW, John Street makeover, the waterfront, etc.), the overwhelming indifference people exhibit in Toronto (you can see that in how people interact/engage in public such as eye contact, smiling, etc.), the fact that very few people get back to you when you contact them here (in my example, it has been a recruiter, my professional membership association, people in the medical community, my accountant, local companies I've purchased things from, and of course the gay community in general even if they were the ones who initiated contact with me first), and because I'm still a relatively young person who feels there is a need to be in a gay-friendly area (i.e. the village) for evenings out for fun, the dearth of nice places to go (especially clubs) is disappointing (and we can all agree Toronto's gay village is for the most part, small, unattractive, and has way too high of a turnover with the businesses on that strip).
My experiences in US cities (and I've been to all of the major ones) are almost always more positive, in that I get more attention from people and they're far more talkative and social and even after I leave that particular city, many of them keep in touch with me (or at least get back to me if I contact them). I used to work in the oil and gas industry in Calgary and was in frequent contact with people across Canada and Houston (in the US). Well, as the tone of this note suggests, I found Americans got back to me far more often than their Canadian counterparts (whether it be replying back to my emails or voicemails). Now I understand all the disadvantages of America too like their crime rate, deeper racial and income divides, their weaker economy, the more 'suburban', socially-conservative (i.e. religious) mindset, etc. but despite these factors, I wonder if I would be happier in the US (and of course my first choice is Chicago as it’s a city that is more similar to Toronto than any other).
The fact that Chicago has a blue collar history and is in the Midwest is a positive for me because that implies (generally) the citizens of Chicago would be friendlier, more humble and socially more ‘small-towny’ than Toronto (which may be a good thing for me given my aforementioned issues).
I know that one may think (after reading my post) that well, perhaps something is wrong with me because of the people-related issues I brought up, but it is not the case as many other people I’ve talked to from different backgrounds agree that indifference is a major problem in Toronto.
I sometimes wonder if the reserved mindset of Canadians (i.e. Canadians are not as extroverted as Americans) is a reason behind my dissatisfaction (especially since Canada’s immigration patterns are such that most people tend to mix only with their own race here and I don’t like that – I like getting to know people from all over the world). In the US, more people associate themselves with being Americans first (despite the racial divide) and I wonder if that makes a difference in who talks to me (i.e. an American may look at me as an American first instead of someone who originates from country X, whereas in Canada, I’ll be judged first on my ethnicity). Additionally, the image of my country of origin is better in the US than in Canada.
I apologize for writing such a long note but I’m truly wondering if others on this forum who can associate with being a minority in two ways (ethnicity and sexual orientation) have had similar experiences?
It’s too bad I’m going through all this because I have a really nice condo in Toronto that just became occupiable (Lumiere) and after a few months of living here I’m doubting whether I can be happy in Toronto (in terms of connecting with people).
Toronto may be more liberal than Calgary but when it comes to meeting people, it’s equally difficult (in my case).
Thanks for reading…..
So now that we have a dedicated thread comparing Chicago to Toronto (in a sane way), I would like to bring something up for discussion (which I really hope if OK with the moderators):
I'm a non-white and non-straight male that just recently moved to Toronto (from Calgary) and I like many things about Toronto but a few things that I am not a fan of are quite big (and are negatively impacting my life) and hence my comparison to Chicago (an American city that I feel is fairly close to Toronto overall).
I understand Toronto's current situation (in all contexts) but still I can't fully accept Toronto's infrastructure (poor roads, sidewalks and transit), the fact that things take so long to get done here (i.e. Bloor Street makeover, St. Clair ROW, John Street makeover, the waterfront, etc.), the overwhelming indifference people exhibit in Toronto (you can see that in how people interact/engage in public such as eye contact, smiling, etc.), the fact that very few people get back to you when you contact them here (in my example, it has been a recruiter, my professional membership association, people in the medical community, my accountant, local companies I've purchased things from, and of course the gay community in general even if they were the ones who initiated contact with me first), and because I'm still a relatively young person who feels there is a need to be in a gay-friendly area (i.e. the village) for evenings out for fun, the dearth of nice places to go (especially clubs) is disappointing (and we can all agree Toronto's gay village is for the most part, small, unattractive, and has way too high of a turnover with the businesses on that strip).
My experiences in US cities (and I've been to all of the major ones) are almost always more positive, in that I get more attention from people and they're far more talkative and social and even after I leave that particular city, many of them keep in touch with me (or at least get back to me if I contact them). I used to work in the oil and gas industry in Calgary and was in frequent contact with people across Canada and Houston (in the US). Well, as the tone of this note suggests, I found Americans got back to me far more often than their Canadian counterparts (whether it be replying back to my emails or voicemails). Now I understand all the disadvantages of America too like their crime rate, deeper racial and income divides, their weaker economy, the more 'suburban', socially-conservative (i.e. religious) mindset, etc. but despite these factors, I wonder if I would be happier in the US (and of course my first choice is Chicago as it’s a city that is more similar to Toronto than any other).
The fact that Chicago has a blue collar history and is in the Midwest is a positive for me because that implies (generally) the citizens of Chicago would be friendlier, more humble and socially more ‘small-towny’ than Toronto (which may be a good thing for me given my aforementioned issues).
I know that one may think (after reading my post) that well, perhaps something is wrong with me because of the people-related issues I brought up, but it is not the case as many other people I’ve talked to from different backgrounds agree that indifference is a major problem in Toronto.
I sometimes wonder if the reserved mindset of Canadians (i.e. Canadians are not as extroverted as Americans) is a reason behind my dissatisfaction (especially since Canada’s immigration patterns are such that most people tend to mix only with their own race here and I don’t like that – I like getting to know people from all over the world). In the US, more people associate themselves with being Americans first (despite the racial divide) and I wonder if that makes a difference in who talks to me (i.e. an American may look at me as an American first instead of someone who originates from country X, whereas in Canada, I’ll be judged first on my ethnicity). Additionally, the image of my country of origin is better in the US than in Canada.
I apologize for writing such a long note but I’m truly wondering if others on this forum who can associate with being a minority in two ways (ethnicity and sexual orientation) have had similar experiences?
It’s too bad I’m going through all this because I have a really nice condo in Toronto that just became occupiable (Lumiere) and after a few months of living here I’m doubting whether I can be happy in Toronto (in terms of connecting with people).
Toronto may be more liberal than Calgary but when it comes to meeting people, it’s equally difficult (in my case).
Thanks for reading…..
