Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I also hate riding buses and will avoid them at all cost. I much prefer streetcars/LRT and subways. I think most people (public transit riders) feel the same way.

This feeling is common, among many, many people. You're not alone. Me... I couldn't care less.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well, of course it would take many years to fully develop but it's more about steady improvement over the long run. Those elevated subways are horrible and just make a street so gloomy, noisy and dirty. I love that Toronto doesn't have to deal with that ugliness. Let's keep it that way.

We have enough problems dealing with our public realm and all the ugly electrical wires, poles, postering, tagging, decrepit buildings and shitty street furniture. We don't need over-head train tracks too!

Thing is underground subways cost more.

 

[diminutive]

Also, no one is defending the current state of Eglinton East.

No one is defending Eglinton East but people are making exaggerated claims as to transit's hypothetical impact on its general desirability.

1.) Elevated rail transit clearly doesn't impair densification or other urban design improvments, as seen by Richmond. Obviously the linked photo doesn't look like Paris, but as far as North American suburban arterial goes it's arguably better than anything in Toronto.

2.) Surface LRT won't make Eglinton East any more desirable than it is today. High frequency local transit is currently available, LRT arguably wont even be quicker (lower headways, longer spacing) and the entire TTC fare structure discourages 'local' trips to start with.

3.) Ultimately a rail right of way, whether elevated or surface or underground, won't have substantial impact on Eglinton East or any other suburban arterial's built form. A 20ft right of way simply doesn't have that big of an impact on a 200ft wide roadway surrounded by Laserquests. I purposefully compared Eglinton East to the central waterfrtont to illustrate just how much effort had to go into the waterfront over DECADES by many governments to get to where we are today. Eglinton East has none of the location benefits of the waterfront and has to compete against dozens of similar areas.

 

[RC8]

I would argue the most important thing we can do in Eglinton (far) East is to enhance local transit and cycling routes so as to increase transit access to the 2 GO Rail stations and one subway station in the vicinity. City planners would be wise to encourage nodes of density and retail around these stations.

When I lived far in the depths of Mississauga the lack of a subway that would take me to Kipling many times forced me to eat and shop at Hurontario and Dundas. I was inconvenienced, but ultimately that inconvenience was one of the driving factors of the economic activity in the area. We were all better off from it as a society.

 

[Torontovibe]

Thing is underground subways cost more.

Yes, and we can't afford to put subways on every major street, so that's why I always live within a 5 minute walk of a subway. I've been living in downtowns (Toronto & Montreal) for the last 25 years, so it's never been a problem for me. I intend to move back to suburbia when they put me 6 feet under but not a minute before that. Call me a hard-core urbanite.

 

[nfitz]

This feeling is common, among many, many people. You're not alone. Me... I couldn't care less.

I always used to say I didn't care less ... but I have to say, when the 504 comes along and it's a bus, not a streetcar, the ride is far more bumpy, and you have a lot more problem holding your balance. Might be fine out in 905 suburbia where everyone gets a seat (or at least they do on any of my rare trips onto Miway, YRT, or Oakville Transit), but it's a bit of a roller coaster ride when your standing - especially with small kids ... hmm ... I wonder if that goes to explain this stroller fetish some parents have ... though doesn't explain why they keep appearing on the streetcars.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes, and we can't afford to put subways on every major street, so that's why I always live within a 5 minute walk of a subway. I've been living in downtowns (Toronto & Montreal) for the last 25 years, so it's never been a problem for me. I intend to move back to suburbia when they put me 6 feet under but not a minute before that. Call me a hard-core urbanite.

I give credit. You realize you have to make adjustments. So many people expect to have the mcmansion, the two cars and the subway.

I always used to say I didn't care less ... but I have to say, when the 504 comes along and it's a bus, not a streetcar, the ride is far more bumpy, and you have a lot more problem holding your balance. Might be fine out in 905 suburbia where everyone gets a seat (or at least they do on any of my rare trips onto Miway, YRT, or Oakville Transit), but it's a bit of a roller coaster ride when your standing - especially with small kids ... hmm ... I wonder if that goes to explain this stroller fetish some parents have ... though doesn't explain why they keep appearing on the streetcars.

Oh I agree. It's just that it never bothered me that much. I also don't have kids so I can't really say otherwise

 

[doady]

Metrolinx should cancel all its BRT plans. People don't like taking the bus.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Metrolinx should cancel all its BRT plans. People don't like taking the bus.

Hahaha. I do. The Bus is alright. I got many phone numbers from it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Hahaha. I do. The Bus is alright. I got many phone numbers from it.

Etched into the back of seats, right?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Etched into the back of seats, right?

Very funny. These girls are real (i think...)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Well this is certainly good news for Chicago. The city was ranked 4th most miserable in the United States. Would love to see international rankings.

Chicago makes list of Forbes’ most-miserable cities

Hey, you, wipe that smile off your face!

That goes for you, too, enjoying a sunrise jog along the world’s most magnificent city lakefront. And you, devouring the food of the gods: a Chicago-style hotdog with duck-fat french fries.

You’re supposed to be miserable. According to Forbes.com, Chicagoans live in the fourth-most godforsaken city in America.

But things could be even worse. Detroit topped the 2013 list of America’s Most Miserable Cities.

Here’s what Forbes has to say about us: “Chicago residents must endure long commutes [31 minutes on average], plummeting home prices [37% in the past five years], brutal winters and high foreclosure rates [3.3% of homes in 2012 says RealtyTrac]. Many residents are giving up on the Windy City with a net migration out of the city of 107,000 people the past five years, according to Moody’s Analytics.”

Incidentally, if you’re thinking of fleeing, don’t head for Lake County — No. 9 on the list. “The Chicago suburb is one of the richest counties in the U.S., as measured by per capita income. But home prices are down 29% over the past 5 years. Other drawbacks: long commutes and lousy weather.”

And definitely don’t head for Rockford, No. 3 on the list.

Here’s the full list of Most Miserable Cities:

1. Detroit, Mich.

2. Flint, Mich.

3. Rockford

4. Chicago

5. Modesto, Calif.

6. Vallejo, Calif.

7. Warren, Mich.

8. Stockton, Calif.

9. Lake County

10. New York, N.Y.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Well, they have that in common with us. National magazines [in Canada] love to point out how we Torontonians are also supposed to be these miserable wretches living in some morass of sprawl, crime and pollution.

The "happiest" or "most business friendly" city is usually some town in the Maritimes.

 

[ShonTron]

Well, they have that in common with us. National magazines [in Canada] love to point out how we Torontonians are also supposed to be these miserable wretches living in some morass of sprawl, crime and pollution.

Touché.

So where is St. Louis, a city with some positives, but a north end that's as moribund as Detroit? Or Las Vegas, pit of sprawl and housing collapse? Or Cleveland? Or Janesville WI?

Chicago's economy is very similar to Toronto's ie much better than the surrounding Great Lakes region.

Or other cities whose economies collapsed (and not Flint, whose bottom fell out in the 1980s and 1990s)? Macleans and other Canadian magazines can only imitate dumb lists like this.

 

[Southcore]

Haven't kept up with this thread but the inevitable has now occurred:

Toronto has passed Chicago in terms of population (and no one start with all that Chicagoland nonsense)

http://www.680news.com/2013/03/05/toronto-now-fourth-largest-city-in-north-america/