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AndrewJM3D
Guest
The sign at the site calls for a 25 storey building, perfect for this area.
Toronto Charlie Condos | 122.83m | 36s | Great Gulf | Diamond Schmitt
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papamanjr
Guest
also, if this does go up, especially at king and spadina, the argument for rejecting M5V based on height will seem odd to me - they're practically across the street from each other. now I'm sure 10 floors does make a difference, but this stretch is not queen west. if anything, with the festival tower going up not even a block away, you would think that a few developments with a little extra height would be welcomed around there to give it some balance.
I guess we'll see.
I guess we'll see.
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AndrewJM3D
Guest
M5VLife had an ad in the current condo guide showing the full height rendering, and the sales office is getting closer to being completed. I hope they are able to get the support they need to proceed with their design.
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Mike in TO
Guest
M5V is going to the OMB I believe,
Despite taller condos going on the north side of King, the city wants to preserve the low-rise old-city character on the south side of King. I'm in partial agreement as King has a great stretch of old buildings, and very lively restaurants on the south side from John to Spadina. M5V is completely out of scale and character with the other structures on the south side of King and will set a precident that could eventually cause that entire streetscape to slowly be demolished to make room for condos.
M5V has a great design and is rather unique among the current crop of condos going up in the city. It's too bad the location isn't different as unlike the north side of King, this really will be the first step towards the elimination of one of Toronto's best and mostly lively/energetic couple of blocks of restaurants/clubs/entertainment.
Despite taller condos going on the north side of King, the city wants to preserve the low-rise old-city character on the south side of King. I'm in partial agreement as King has a great stretch of old buildings, and very lively restaurants on the south side from John to Spadina. M5V is completely out of scale and character with the other structures on the south side of King and will set a precident that could eventually cause that entire streetscape to slowly be demolished to make room for condos.
M5V has a great design and is rather unique among the current crop of condos going up in the city. It's too bad the location isn't different as unlike the north side of King, this really will be the first step towards the elimination of one of Toronto's best and mostly lively/energetic couple of blocks of restaurants/clubs/entertainment.
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Mike in TO
Guest
As a reference point a couple of quotes from the M5V planning report:
"The King-Spadina area has been very successful. There has been significant reinvestment and development in the area and there continues to be a wide range of land uses. Notwithstanding this success there have been challenges. In particular, new development in the area east of Spadina Avenue is challenging the built form expectations of the Plan."
"... identify King Street West as being the most complex on the basis of its role as a transit route supporting two-way streetcar service, the variation in lot characteristics between the south and north sides of the street, and the historic main street character of the south side of the street. The scale and character of the historic buildings and retail activity on the south side of the street should be maintained."
"Relative to built form, the consultant evaluated the current built form environment relative to the original intent of the King-Spadina Plan. The report concluded that, for the most part, development has maintained the intent of the Plan. However, there have been and continue to be development applications in the area east of Spadina Avenue, on and south of King Street West which challenge the intent that new development would reinforce the scale and character of the
area’s historic buildings. The review concluded that there may be potential for building heights in excess of the existing planning framework but likely only in limited locations and in all cases subject to certain site conditions. Many of the recommended site conditions recommended by the Review study are consistent with those in the City’s Tall Building Guidelines. Additional conditions proposed by the study and recommended to be incorporated in the King-Spadina Secondary Plan are that such proposals demonstrate that they would not impact adjacent sites or the public realm and incorporate an increased stepback from the podium to the taller building elements."
"The King-Spadina Urban Design Guidelines are intended to support the implementation of the King-Spadina Secondary Plan. King Street West, west of John Street, is identified as a Special Street in the guidelines on the basis of the relatively continuous frontage of three and four storey buildings from the late 19th century along the south side of the street. The guidelines expect that new infill development on the street will respect and reinforce the built form character established by these historic commercial buildings in terms of building type, height and character along the street frontage, vertical and horizontal articulation and use."
My personal thoughts are to intensify the various lots north of King, but I agree with the city that the 19th century frontage and character of the south side of the street should be preserved. There are very few (if any) areas of Toronto that are like the south side of King West and these areas should be protected. M5V if built as is could be the first domino to fall on the south side of King.
"The King-Spadina area has been very successful. There has been significant reinvestment and development in the area and there continues to be a wide range of land uses. Notwithstanding this success there have been challenges. In particular, new development in the area east of Spadina Avenue is challenging the built form expectations of the Plan."
"... identify King Street West as being the most complex on the basis of its role as a transit route supporting two-way streetcar service, the variation in lot characteristics between the south and north sides of the street, and the historic main street character of the south side of the street. The scale and character of the historic buildings and retail activity on the south side of the street should be maintained."
"Relative to built form, the consultant evaluated the current built form environment relative to the original intent of the King-Spadina Plan. The report concluded that, for the most part, development has maintained the intent of the Plan. However, there have been and continue to be development applications in the area east of Spadina Avenue, on and south of King Street West which challenge the intent that new development would reinforce the scale and character of the
area’s historic buildings. The review concluded that there may be potential for building heights in excess of the existing planning framework but likely only in limited locations and in all cases subject to certain site conditions. Many of the recommended site conditions recommended by the Review study are consistent with those in the City’s Tall Building Guidelines. Additional conditions proposed by the study and recommended to be incorporated in the King-Spadina Secondary Plan are that such proposals demonstrate that they would not impact adjacent sites or the public realm and incorporate an increased stepback from the podium to the taller building elements."
"The King-Spadina Urban Design Guidelines are intended to support the implementation of the King-Spadina Secondary Plan. King Street West, west of John Street, is identified as a Special Street in the guidelines on the basis of the relatively continuous frontage of three and four storey buildings from the late 19th century along the south side of the street. The guidelines expect that new infill development on the street will respect and reinforce the built form character established by these historic commercial buildings in terms of building type, height and character along the street frontage, vertical and horizontal articulation and use."
My personal thoughts are to intensify the various lots north of King, but I agree with the city that the 19th century frontage and character of the south side of the street should be preserved. There are very few (if any) areas of Toronto that are like the south side of King West and these areas should be protected. M5V if built as is could be the first domino to fall on the south side of King.
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papamanjr
Guest
I agree with that, no doubt. but at the same time, I think it's safe to say that Speedy doesn't add much to the stretch. my concern isn't so much the height of the building, but what they do at the base with the podium to maintain, (or enhance,) that south side stretch of king.
and I don't think demolishing the restaurants around there will be a concern for quite a long while. that lot (speedy) I would imagine is the exception - it adds nothing of value as it stands now.
and I don't think demolishing the restaurants around there will be a concern for quite a long while. that lot (speedy) I would imagine is the exception - it adds nothing of value as it stands now.
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building babel
Guest
There are several streetscapes with solid runs of similarly cheek-by-jowl three and four storey hundred year old buildings - on Queen West, Queen East, on Yonge, in Parkdale, in the Junction, and along bits of King east, to name but a few. Though perhaps none have been surrendered so enthusiastically to the denizens of cafe society as this block has.
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Mike in TO
Guest
I think the issue isn't necessarily Speedy... that is obviously disposable, but the question is what should replace it? Something that strengthens the character of the south side of King or something that is completely out of context and will set a precident for neighbouring properties that are of greater value to the neighbourhood than Speedy is.
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cassiusa
Guest
I think that context for this area is purely determined by the streetlevel. I don't have any problems with highrises going here as long as the tower portion is well set-back from the street and the base/podium of the building fits the existing neighbourhood context. As well, if possible, residential entry should be at the rear of the building. I don't think having a tower go up there necessarily equates to weakening the character of King Street.
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Mike in TO
Guest
^ M5V has zero setback from King Street to the full height of 34s for a portion of the King St. frontage and then a very minor setback on the other portions of the site - don't get me wrong - I think it is a fantastic tower - one of the best proposals in recent memory. tas is also a great builder with a really strong team, they've done some very interesting work - especially in the Bridal Path area and have some international stuff going on as well - it's just the location of the proposal that is a bit unfortunate.
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beaconer
Guest
Is there not already a "precedent"?
393 King West, the office tower converted to a condo which if I am not mistaken, sits on the same block just a few units west from M5V (371 King St W), also on the south side of King West.
It isn't exactly your 30+ stories, but neither is it that 3-4 story classic low rise, and is already completely out of context. It is set back however.
393 King West, the office tower converted to a condo which if I am not mistaken, sits on the same block just a few units west from M5V (371 King St W), also on the south side of King West.
It isn't exactly your 30+ stories, but neither is it that 3-4 story classic low rise, and is already completely out of context. It is set back however.
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boiler2000
Guest
The podium of 393 is sort of continuous with the older red brick building to the west of it. However, it definitely doesn't work with the old 3-storey buildings to the east.
Even though M5V is totally out of context/character of that stretch of street, I'd have to agree that it's already a bit of a mess here, between Peter and Spadina.
It could be helped a lot by a good setback around the 4/5th floor.
Even though M5V is totally out of context/character of that stretch of street, I'd have to agree that it's already a bit of a mess here, between Peter and Spadina.
It could be helped a lot by a good setback around the 4/5th floor.
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papamanjr
Guest
setbacks would be nice, especially if they created one for a patio lounge on the second floor, perhaps for a restaurant.
I walk this stretch everyday from yonge to bathurst, (on my way to and fro work,) and all you have to do is picture the festival centre at king and john, the ritz and its accompanying office tower a little further out on adelaide, and you can already start to feel the impact those 3 towers alone are going to have on the area - I wonder if a 34 story development afterwards is going to be such a shock.
I walk this stretch everyday from yonge to bathurst, (on my way to and fro work,) and all you have to do is picture the festival centre at king and john, the ritz and its accompanying office tower a little further out on adelaide, and you can already start to feel the impact those 3 towers alone are going to have on the area - I wonder if a 34 story development afterwards is going to be such a shock.
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Mike in TO
Guest
The financial district is invading the entertainment district....
and unfortunately the city's by-laws are preventing the clubs from migrating west - I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the entertainment district starts to get squeezed out.
and unfortunately the city's by-laws are preventing the clubs from migrating west - I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the entertainment district starts to get squeezed out.
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building babel
Guest
Demographics will do it in. The echo boom can't Carry On Clubbing forever.