Toronto BMO Field Renovations | ?m | ?s | MLSE | Gensler

The theory passed on by all four papers, TSN and Sportsnet - is that the most likely motive for MLSE buying the Argos is to pursue an NFL team down the road:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/11/25/wheels-quietly-in-motion-to-move-buffalo-bills-to-toronto/

The speculation is that the NFL doesn't want the CFL's blood on it's hands, and would like to see the Argos taken care of before considering the relocation of a franchise here.

It's all speculation, but it makes sense. No disrespect to Argos fans, but there is no incentive to buy the team otherwise (and certainly not when you factor in the stadium situation). The Argos lose money each year, and they are part of a national TV deal with TSN - so it's not like you can buy them to own TV/Radio rights (like the Jays).
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I know the football played by the CFL and NFL are different, but is there any way that the Argos could switch from the CFL to the NFL? Or is that just completely outside of the realm of possibility?
Click to expand...

That kind of switch just doesn't happen. It would be similar to, though even more far fetched as european football rules are generally the same, an EPL team switching leagues and playing in say Serie A or the Spanish league. The only place where something similar does happen is in europe where lower division teams move up into higher divisions, or NASL teams joining MLS.

Furthermore as mentioned the NFL is very sensitive about negatively affecting the CFL. The opinion is that if the Argos were to ever leave the CFL (via folding, moving, or unlikely joining the NFL) that the CFL would falter.

I believe part of the motivation for propping up the Argos and moving them into a renovated BMO field is to: 1) obviously provide financial support for the Argos should the NFL ever come to town. MLSE has been able to keep the Marlies in town as a second fiddle team/league in this town and I guess the thinking is that they could generate some positive community relations by buying/supporting the Argos. And it could probably be done fairly cheaply as the total budget for the Argos is probably less than some of the contracts MLSE hands out to it's players, it would be pocket change for some good publicity. 2) By putting the Argos in BMO rather than building a new stadium MLSE is able to still leave open the opportunity to build a larger NFL sized stadium. It would be pretty silly to build an Argos CFL stadium and an NFL stadium with in 10-15 yrs of each other.
 
I might add that switching to the NFL assumes that one prefers 4 down football to regular football. And then there's the question of permanently severing play between Toronto and the rest of Canada in this sport. Torontonians might not think much of the Hamilton - Toronto rivalry today, but sports play a pivotal role in bringing a country together.

It should matter to us to play Regina, Montreal, and Calgary over Chicago, Miami, and Denver. Only in football, and to a limited extent hockey, do we foster these national bonds through sport. Leaving the CFL for the NFL will alienate us even further from our own country than we are already. That's not a route we need go down.

It would be nice if Toronto focused its attention on Canada rather than attempting to divorce itself from it. Londoners relish playing soccer teams from other parts of England rather than looking down upon it. Sheffield, Liverpool, and Hull are good enough for them; Hamilton, Vancouver, and Ottawa should be good enough for us.
 
Last edited:
isaidso said:
I might add that switching to the NFL assumes that one prefers 4 down football to regular football. And then there's the question of permanently severing play between Toronto and the rest of Canada in this sport. Torontonians might not think much of the Hamilton - Toronto rivalry today, but sports play a pivotal role in bringing a country together.

It should matter to us to play Regina, Montreal, and Calgary over Chicago, Miami, and Denver. Only in football, and to a limited extent hockey, do we foster these national bonds through sport. Leaving the CFL for the NFL will alienate us even further from our own country than we are already. That's not a route we need go down.

It would be nice if Toronto focused its attention on Canada rather than attempting to divorce itself from it. Londoners relish playing soccer teams from other parts of England rather than looking down upon it. Sheffield, Liverpool, and Hull are good enough for them; Hamilton, Vancouver, and Ottawa should be good enough for us.
Click to expand...

Doesn't London have soccer teams playing to the Euro teams as well? Anyway, I hear you but I would hope the meaning of Canada is more profound than the CFL.
 
buildup said:
Doesn't London have soccer teams playing to the Euro teams as well? Anyway, I hear you but I would hope the meaning of Canada is more profound than the CFL.
Click to expand...

They only get to play those Euro teams in tournaments based on how well they do in their domestic leagues and cup tournaments. The top 4 teams in the English league system get to play in the following year's UEFA Champions League.....none of those 4 spots are guaranteed to go to teams from London (although often a couple do).
 
Toronto is the only city where the Argos make any sense, because winning isn't the goal.

To make money, serious money, in football, you need an NFL franchise. The CFL is a nowhere league that no one else in the world pays any attention to - and even at that the Argos are mediocre. Most people in Toronto that are interested in football watch the NFL. How many people in your area had a "Super Bowl" party on the weekend. How many NFL jerseys do you see compared to CFL jerseys? How many CFL players have you ever heard of? There is no question that for football to be successful in Toronto, it will now have to be the NFL.

The only reason MLSE would purchase the Argos is so they can shut it down when they bring in a real football team. The Bills are rumoured to be coming here once Wilson departs. (Also perfect because the Bills never win either)
 
Last edited:
The Superbowl has become popular around the world, but beyond that, few people outside the US pay attention to football. The NFL will be more popular than the CFL in Toronto, but I doubt it'll be that popular overall.
 
I've always pondered the possibility of promoting the entire eight team CFL (minus Ottawa) to the NFL. Would require realignment of the entire league. Twenty teams per conference with either ten divisions of four teams or eight divisions of five teams .

Unfortunately, this scenario presumes the complete eradication of Canadian rules football and the storied histories of the CFL and Grey Cup, but the reality of the CFL as a second-tier league is evident. Might as well integrate with the superior league and capitalize off the NFL's lucrative popularity.

Smaller Canadian markets like Regina, Winnipeg, and Hamilton as epicentres of football fandom similar to what the Packers represent to Green Bay would not be outside the realm of possibility either, especially considering the immense popularity of the Riders in Saskatchewan.
 
^ There is only one market in Canada that could afford an NFL franchise, that being Toronto - and even that is questionable - so that scenario could never work.
 
Last edited:
Big Daddy said:
^ There is only one market in Canada that could afford an NFL franchise, that being Toronto - and even that is questionable - so that scenario could never work.
Click to expand...

The "market" has nothing to do with obtaining a franchise but rather the deep pockets of a prospective owner. There are plenty of small-market NFL teams that do astoundingly well financially. Green Bay and New Orleans being two examples.
 
JMSRead said:
The theory passed on by all four papers, TSN and Sportsnet - is that the most likely motive for MLSE buying the Argos is to pursue an NFL team down the road:

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/11/25/wheels-quietly-in-motion-to-move-buffalo-bills-to-toronto/

The speculation is that the NFL doesn't want the CFL's blood on it's hands, and would like to see the Argos taken care of before considering the relocation of a franchise here.

It's all speculation, but it makes sense. No disrespect to Argos fans, but there is no incentive to buy the team otherwise (and certainly not when you factor in the stadium situation). The Argos lose money each year, and they are part of a national TV deal with TSN - so it's not like you can buy them to own TV/Radio rights (like the Jays).
Click to expand...

It actually makes some sense. Buying the Argos and giving them a home at BMO field, no matter the difficulties that come with that. Allows MLSE to say that they will/are supporting the Argos and the CFL financially removing the NFL's worry that they will kill the CFL. But also keeps the window open for a proposal to build a new stadium for the NFL, I find it difficult to imagine Toronto (or the GTA for that matter) having three stadia (BMO, new Argos, new NFL) both from the perspective of the construction proposal and from a getting public funding perspective.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
It actually makes some sense. Buying the Argos and giving them a home at BMO field, no matter the difficulties that come with that. Allows MLSE to say that they will/are supporting the Argos and the CFL financially removing the NFL's worry that they will kill the CFL. But also keeps the window open for a proposal to build a new stadium for the NFL, I find it difficult to imagine Toronto (or the GTA for that matter) having three stadia (BMO, new Argos, new NFL) both from the perspective of the construction proposal and from a getting public funding perspective.
Click to expand...

Remember - MLSE can own 70% of an NFL team in Toronto - however, they can't own the remaining 30%. That has to be put up by an individual (Larry Tanenbaum or I suppose Jon Bon Jovi... LOL).
 
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/25/city-mlse-close-on-bmo-field-expansion-councillor

TORONTO - The City of Toronto is close to a deal with Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment to expand BMO Field.

Councillor Mark Grimes told the Toronto Sun Tuesday that a deal is “getting close” and he’s hoping it could lead to the field becoming the new home for the Toronto Argonauts.

“I’m confident that we can strike a deal between the city and MLSE,” said Grimes, the chairman of the Board of Governors of Exhibition Place. “It’s not there yet, we’re getting close in my mind.

“We should have something very shortly, in the next couple weeks we should know.”

Grimes was spotted meeting with city officials in Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly’s office on Tuesday.

He has called a special meeting of the Board of Governors on March 7 to discuss a possible deal.

“It is going to cost us money to expand, there is a portion that we would pay that we’d be guaranteed back,” he said.

The expansion would add around 10,000 seats to the more than 20,000-seat stadium, extend the length of the field and add a partial roof.

Grimes said he hopes it would provide a better home for the Toronto FC, a possible new home for the Argonauts and one day host an NHL Winter Classic game.

“It is going to be a pretty extensive renovation ... but it will be great,” Grimes said. “It would be great to bring the Argonauts back to Exhibition Place.”

Although the time frame would be tight, Grimes hopes the field could be updated in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

A MLSE spokesman declined to comment on Tuesday.
Click to expand...
 
Toronto getting an NFL team ain't gonna happen. There are major cities in the U.S. that don't have one, and the billion dollar cost alone to get a team, let alone build a stadium, is cost
prohibitive. It would have been financially feasible years ago, but i'm afraid it's way out of range now. I don't think Rogers or MLSE has deep enough pockets for that.
 
bmiller said:
Toronto getting an NFL team ain't gonna happen. There are major cities in the U.S. that don't have one, and the billion dollar cost alone to get a team, let alone build a stadium, is cost
prohibitive. It would have been financially feasible years ago, but i'm afraid it's way out of range now. I don't think Rogers or MLSE has deep enough pockets for that.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised, any new expansion of the NFL and you would have a line up of Big Shots wanting one for Toronto...
My prediction, Toronto in the NFL in the next 10 years.

By the way, the many major USA cities you mention above without an NFL team is one (Los Angeles). and there is rumor that they will be back in the NFL in the next 3 years

bmiller said:
I don't think Rogers or MLSE has deep enough pockets for that.
Click to expand...

What makes you think that you have to be Canadian to own a Toronto NFL team?,
also don't forget, the HOOPPs, OTPPs, OMERs, Cdn. Pension Funds would have no problem investing into an Entertainment complex with an NFL expansion team
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top