News   Aug 27, 2024
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Toronto - Bills series not a hit

I still say no chance in hell it was anything close to 40K.

Quit being an idiot man. Look at JN's pictures for christ's sake. There were in fact close to 40,000 people at the game. My buddy was at the game too. He recalls there being around that much as well.

Anyways, a number of things regarding this fiasco:

1) Yes, Rogers in their typical money first mentality, greatly over-charged ticket prices for this whole series. Not to mention the buy all at once format completely turned people away as well. Regardless of this however, pre season NFL games in the States don't even sell out themselves. Yes I'm aware that even the regular season games played here were disastrous attendance wise, but realistically, even if ticket prices for the pre season games were more in line to NFL standards, I highly doubt the games would have been viewed to capacity. I would attribute that to:

2) Rogers Centre as a sporting venue:
Yes it cost a shitload to build. Yes it is still a spectacle for our city. Yes it is still deemed somewhat state of the art. That aside, the venue itself offers a sort of fraudulent sporting experience, for both football and baseball. In other words, it feels completely unauthentic. It caters more to itself in a way, than to the sports fan and to the sporting atmosphere. You walk into the place marvelling at its gargantuan size, instead of engaging yourself at the event at hand. It's cold, uninviting and segregating. The mood aside, there are more problems. Poor sightlines, small, cramped seats, especially in the 100 level, where you'd expect them to be more comfortable given the ticket prices. No cupholders save for the 100 and 200 level club seats. Why the unnecessary inconveniene? I could go on and on. Regardless, if the NFL is ever going to work in Toronto, a football stadium would have to be built. No questions asked. The Rogers Centre isn't a good enough facility. The place is reapidly declining even by baseball standards. As for the Jays, some extensive renovations to the place, as in a transition to a baseball only facility is the best viable option for the team's long term success and appeal to its fanbase. But then again, baseball-only means less money for the greedy bastards at Rogers, so how likely is that to happen?

3) Canada's Athletic Culture compared to that of the US:
It's just different. As much as people try to blur the line that divides both countries, the differences still do, and probably always will remain. I'm specifically referring to the passion Americans have for sports, more specifically, when it comes to supporting their teams. There is such a die-hard passion with regards to sports amongst the American people, it really is awe-inspiring. I've always said Americans could be passionate about watching paint dry. The passion Americans have for football, of all levels, is unparallel. I really don't see Canadians, especially Torontonians, showing the same kind of quasi-religious, blind passion for an NFL team in this city. Grassroots football isn't really embedded into our athletic culture. High school football games here don't draw 10,000 plus crowds. I don't think you can blame that on population differences alone. Look at CIS football. There simply isn't enough passion for the game to warrant an NFL franchise and no amount of corporate charades will be able to change that reality.
 
I still say no chance in hell it was anything close to 40K.

I dunno, that marching band alone looks like it was close to 100 people!

Anyway, who cares. People are getting testy here over nothing. It seems clear to me it was more than 20,000 and probably not quite 40,000.
Any way you slice it, I doubt Rogers sold even the 20,000 - and it's their own fault.

I suspect an NFL team - a real one in a real stadium, charging normal prices - would do just fine.

Rogers Centre is what it is - it's not TERRIBLE for baseball, or for football, but in trying to serve both it's compromised.
As Trranslude says, it's not an NFL stadium. Even if it were newer and had better sitelines, the NFL would never allow a stadium so small so if the city gets and NFL team, it would be a new stadium.
 
I probably should have specified in my previous post, but in addition to the lack of an appropriate venue and fan support/passion, the presence of the CFL would be detrimental to the viability of an NFL franchise here. I know many people who are CFL fans only, and view the NFL with a very anti-American sentiment. Not to mention, many NFL fans here are fans of other teams, and probably wouldn't accept some cast-off franchise as their own.
 
Quit being an idiot man. Look at JN's pictures for christ's sake. There were in fact close to 40,000 people at the game. My buddy was at the game too. He recalls there being around that much as well.
Did I insult you?

I see about as many rows less than half-filled as more than half-filled. So 40,000 was impossible.
 
I agree that Canadians simply aren't as passionate about sports in general as Americans. That said, if Toronto had its own NFL team, I'm sure a city like Toronto (with 5 million people) can fill a 100,000 seat stadium. I also think the price was a huge disincentive for this particular series. You have build up to that price. They didn't charge that much for the Maple Leafs from the beginning. They became popular, and THEN raised prices SLOWLY over time. You can't START with high prices for an unproven product.
 
http://www.wgr550.com/Schopp--Is-Toronto-snubbing-NFL-/7947556

Tonight the Bills' and Colts' backups play a neutral-site practice game on a concrete rug in a baseball stadium, outside of the United States. Tickets are very expensive, and there may be some empty seats. Amazing that could happen, isn't it?

Would it be right to think that a tepid, sparse crowd is an indication that Toronto just doesn't want the NFL? Not to me. It would be like saying that not going to an overpriced, subpar restaurant with snooty service is proof that you don't like to eat.
 
I probably should have specified in my previous post, but in addition to the lack of an appropriate venue and fan support/passion, the presence of the CFL would be detrimental to the viability of an NFL franchise here. I know many people who are CFL fans only, and view the NFL with a very anti-American sentiment. Not to mention, many NFL fans here are fans of other teams, and probably wouldn't accept some cast-off franchise as their own.

I sort of agree. I think the NFL would hurt the CFL. I guess many will still cheer for the broncos, but winning cures everything overall.
 
Everyone: Interesting pics and posts concerning the Bills playing in Toronto and the NFL...
It does not look real good seeing the crowd at the recent Rogers Skydome exhibition game...
I noticed this site concerning this series: www.billsintoronto.com for anyone interested...
I believe the key to look at will be how the regular season game vs. the Chicago Bears on Sunday November 7th is attendance-wise...
I think that pricing tickets very high is a mistake and fans are in a sort of protest by not attending...
LI MIKE
 
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I believe the key to look at will be how the regular season game vs. the Chicago Bears on Sunday November 7th is attendance-wise...
I think that pricing tickets very high is a mistake and fans are in a sort of protest by not attending...
LI MIKE
The real key would be to know how many full-priced tickets per game are actually being sold, but the fact that Rogers has been either vague or silent tells a lot. And the fact that some executives involved in the Bills deal are no longer at Rogers tells even more.

As for a full-time team in Toronto, show me the guy or guys (since NFL rules preclude corporate ownership) who will step forward to buy the team AND pay for a new stadium (because no government is paying for it). That could require an outlay of up to $2 billion. Who besides Ted Rogers has come forward since Paul Godfrey started this crusade 25 years ago? I bet a Phoenix Coyotes team on the open market would attract more than one Toronto bidder within a week.
 
Larry Tannebaum + Rogers

3 billion total cost. There you go.
Rogers who? Rogers the corporation can't be an owner because corporate ownership is strictly prohibited by NFL bylaws (this is a recording).

As for Mr. Excitement, I bet his interest in the NFL ran for the hills after the Bills disaster. And he'll probably get a better payday from territorial rights when he acquiesces to a second NHL team in Toronto.

So who else?
 
Rogers who? Rogers the corporation can't be an owner because corporate ownership is strictly prohibited by NFL bylaws (this is a recording).

As for Mr. Excitement, I bet his interest in the NFL ran for the hills after the Bills disaster. And he'll probably get a better payday from territorial rights when he acquiesces to a second NHL team in Toronto.

So who else?

Larry will be the face of the franchise. Own the Majority. Rogers(Family) will own minority stake.

The NHL does not make that much money. He will not get a better payday for territorial. $400 million at most.
 

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