Toronto 88 Scott Street | 203.9m | 58s | Concert | P + S / IBI

Materials only enhance design. In this case, you start with a thoroughly mediocre design.
 
I don't get what's mediocre about this design, looks pretty interesting. It's not a plain box and has lots of different varied components on all sides and even has a crown.
 
Big Daddy said:
This is interesting, Toronto is ranked second most successful city in the world. It's nice to see that our burgeoning skyline has impacted our "success" standing. Perhaps there is a global feeling of excitement and security about whats happening here.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2011/05/were_number_two_were_number_two/

Makes me wonder why they would contemplate capping the second office tower at Southcore.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ties-for-business-life-and-innovation/238436/
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actually is #1..done by the new york time..
 
stjames2queenwest said:
I don't get what's mediocre about this design, looks pretty interesting. It's not a plain box and has lots of different varied components on all sides and even has a crown.
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"Not a plain box"
"Lots of different varied components"
"has a crown"

=/=

Great architecture.

It takes a lot more than a few components on the exterior of a building such as a "crown" and the appearance of not being a "box". It really breaks my heart that on UT we so often reduce architectural discourse to looking at the elevations/renderings of buildings and acting as though the exterior forms of a building are all that constitutes its design. I've taken to bashing my head on my desk.
 
modernizt said:
"Not a plain box"
"Lots of different varied components"
"has a crown"

=/=

Great architecture.

It takes a lot more than a few components on the exterior of a building such as a "crown" and the appearance of not being a "box". It really breaks my heart that on UT we so often reduce architectural discourse to looking at the elevations/renderings of buildings and acting as though the exterior forms of a building are all that constitutes its design. I've taken to bashing my head on my desk.
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???
I'm sure we all agree that great design includes much more than the exterior. This particular discourse is about the exterior form. There are endless comments on UT where readers are tired with glass boxes. This discussion is about a tower that is neither fully glass nor a box. It's a worthy discussion.

...bang away my friend, don't hurt yourself :)
 
In that case, then, how many carbuncles or setbacks make a building good, or no longer a box? Does a crown or pinnacle feature make a good design, just by nature of being a crown or pinnacle? I just think talking about all these things in isolation, and quantitatively doesn't make sense. One can argue that it's different from a "glass box" tower in various ways, but that doesn't make it good design. It just makes it different from "glass-box" towers.

I think it's rather "meh", but I have a strong feeling, based on past projects, that the materials are not going to flatter this design.
 
This is clearly just another market-driven condo building employing a convoluted architectural design. Quality of materials and execution can make a difference. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't. I have a feeling this one will just end up as filler.
 
As it happens, I first came to this site when I was exploring the net to check on Concert's record, in preparation for negotiating a deal with them. I came to respect the people I was dealing with very highly. Architectural taste is highly personal, and I won't argue such matters here. I can say, however, that I have reason to believe Concert can and will carefully fulfill any obligations they have entered into, including providing quality materials.
 
I don't doubt that the people working for Concert are great and want the best for their project. I think a lot of us are just weary of something like this happening:

mcmfMRj.jpg


That said, I couldn't find any labelled elevations but I think the office floors in the podium will be clad in curtain-wall, which would be very positive. So I'll keep an open mind about the materials. Hopefully the precast used will look good; precast can be very hit or miss. The cladding used on the podium of London on the Esplanade is fantastic, for example, vs. a lot of the precast we see used in other condo projects.
 
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Motion is not the building I would have chosen to pick on. If you're going to create a grid of mullions and spandrels for a building envelop, you might as well vary the colour of the spandrels as was done at it. I'm happy to see the subtle differences in spandrel shading at Motion, and that is probably what Bazis should have done at Emerald Park at Yonge and Sheppard too, as varying the greens actually would have helped it look emerald-like. Where Concert goofed badly with spandrel was atop Berczy Park, where it's the classic case of a million mullions with little reason other than keeping the costs of cladding down.

My experience with Concert people jibes with 67Cup's; I haven't met one yet that I wouldn't be happy to see again anytime, anywhere. That doesn't mean though that we won't sometimes wish that Concert hadn't directed more of the budget towards higher quality finishes on the exterior on certain buildings, and that we shouldn't push for high quality on every building exterior. My take is that Concert, like Tridel, places the highest priority on the interiors to make sure that their purchasers are thrilled with their suites and amenities: that seems to be the overall purchaser experience. If they'd just adjust the exterior budget a little higher (there'd go the prices too, though), we wouldn't be squawking so much.

42
 
interchange42 said:
Motion is not the building I would have chosen to pick on.
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That's fair; I happen to think it's one of the worst, messiest, and cheapest-looking examples in recent memory. And the window-wall/spandrel mess isn't even the worst part. The way the materials are used in the podium doesn't seem to fit the tectonic expression of the tower, especially the visually heavy stone veneer that forms a ledge above the retail, with the charcoal brick, with the various colours in the window wall, etc. etc. It's what separates a project like this (and various other IBI Group work) from firms that select and use materials in very intelligent ways.

I'm glad to see that 88 Scott will have the heritage facade and some curtain-wall office levels, though. I'm a bit worried as to what the rest of the building will look like.

The interior might be a pleasant surprise, though. I live in another Concert/IBI project and I'm actually quite impressed with the handsome selection of materials and the way they are used throughout the interior.
 
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