Toronto 7 St Thomas | 38.71m | 9s | St. Thomas | Hariri Pontarini

[junctionist]

First, that brick landscaping, while trying to be fun, comes off as really cheesy to me. Those new stairwells look like they were tinkering too much. I like the seating added in the walkway. But, I would have preferred to see some trees here that (presumably) had deep planters with seating around them.

I may be reading into this way too much, but from looking at the render, it appears that there is detail missing around the doorways which suggests to me they would be taking these down and rebuilding them, minus some of the details.

At first I assumed the old buildings were poorly rendered, but it could be possible that the facades will be rebuilt. If that's the case, the new facades seen in the rendering look substantially worse and are missing quite a few details. I don't see why anyone would make the effort to preserve 19th century design with such an inconsequential gesture like building a facade that looks like row houses from the 1970s (not 19th century). There's also a nicely maturing tree that has been eliminated in the rendering without so much as a replacement.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

This is a disgrace. Shame on the City if this gets approved.

 

[interchange42]

There has been an awful lot of alarm about this project, based on incomplete imagery and a fair bit of wild conjecture. We have more information now, and hope this will clear up some of confusion regarding this project.

The owner of the project is St. Thomas Commercial Developments. The architects are Hariri Pontarini, with E.R.A. handling the heritage aspects. GH3 is providing the landscape plan which looks to create a piazza-like environment along Sultan street. The motif in the brick frieze is continued onto the street and houses a series of benches for people to gather along. There will be retail at grade.

The heritage buildings will remain in part: 1,3,5,7,and 9 sultan will be preserved from the street to the ridge of the roof peak, and all 3 visible sides of 11 St. Thomas will remain.

1722 sq m of existing building will remain and 7708 sq m will be added in the form of a rear 9 storey addition.

The 4th floor and 9th provide green roofs as a visual amenity for surrounding buildings. Some of the 9th floor offices share a series of outdoor courtyards at each of the 4 corners. Upper floors will be sold as office condominiums of approx 5-600 sq ft, with 13 offices per floor throughout the building, which can be purchased in multiples – ie: own an entire floor if desired.

The new building is wrapped in a white fritted curtainwall and serves as a backdrop for the newly restored heritage buildings. The skin undulates in plan to allow for multiple views within the offices while allowing the architects to carve into the south west end of the building in order to pull the addition away from 1 St Thomas.

We are told that the City has been extremely supportive of the project. The area is inundated with high rise residential developments, so a small office building which prominently features the existing houses has come as a welcome relief. It has been described as wholly appropriate for the area.

The project has been submitted for re-zoning. A meeting with the community and the planning staff will take place on February 17, 2011 on the University of Toronto campus, room to be determined, from 7:00pm until 9:00pm.

You may now continue the debate more fully informed!

 

[taal]

Any idea if they're getting tax breaks for this project ?

I'm curious are condo offices taxed differently then standard offices ?

Also you mention the upper floors are office condos (similar to hullmark in NYCC) but the lower floors are traditional offices ?

 

[Tewder]

Wow!

 

[alklay]

If these beautiful buildings were going to be redeveloped, this seems like a great way to do it. Thanks for the information interchange42.

 

[SP!RE]

What an interesting project!

The only part I dislike (in fact, despise) is the brick paving along the sidewalks... no thanks. Looks very 80s-Yorkville. What's wrong with the way those facades meet the street currently?

 

[Tewder]

I don't dislike it but it does seem a little matchy-matchy. Maybe a contrasting colour would work better?

 

[pw20]

I don't dislike it but it does seem a little matchy-matchy. Maybe a contrasting colour would work better?

The city should extend the black granite along St. Thomas and Sultan Street - they're in the Yorkville BIA... would be nice to see the entire area looking somewhat cohesive.

 

[WiddleBittyKitty]

I asked these questions in the story on the home page, but now it strikes me that I should ask here:

These buildings are Designated Part IV Heritage Properties. I assume the designation covers the exterior only, as these buildings do not contain major public spaces like a church would. Despite that, I assume that Heritage Services wants as much of the existing buildings retained as possible.

1) What could the owner do as of right without the re-zoning that is being applied for? (How much teeth does the Heritage Preservation Act have?) I am under the impression that post-process they could simply bulldoze these if they wanted, but then they would not get any density bonus from the City. Am I on track with that?

2) We know the owner is not going that route however. I assume that with the rezoning application the owner is saying "For retaining these structures and enhancing the public realm, we want enough density bonus to be allowed a 9 floor tower." How does the City determine what is a fair swap in these cases?

 

[interchange42]

What an interesting project!

The only part I dislike (in fact, despise) is the brick paving along the sidewalks... no thanks. Looks very 80s-Yorkville. What's wrong with the way those facades meet the street currently?

I agree that the paving does have a retro 80s look, (1880s maybe - that's when these buildings were built!), but I don't mind. We have so few curves in this right-angled city, that if the architect wants to play up the Romanesque arches in the windows and detailing of the houses, I say go for it, let's celebrate that. Good public spaces identify and magnify the delightful details of their context.

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[interchange42]

I asked these questions in the story on the home page, but now it strikes me that I should ask here:

These buildings are Designated Part IV Heritage Properties. I assume the designation covers the exterior only, as these buildings do not contain major public spaces like a church would. Despite that, I assume that Heritage Services wants as much of the existing buildings retained as possible.

1) What could the owner do as of right without the re-zoning that is being applied for? (How much teeth does the Heritage Preservation Act have?) I am under the impression that post-process they could simply bulldoze these if they wanted, but then they would not get any density bonus from the City. Am I on track with that?

2) We know the owner is not going that route however. I assume that with the rezoning application the owner is saying "For retaining these structures and enhancing the public realm, we want enough density bonus to be allowed a 9 floor tower." How does the City determine what is a fair swap in these cases?

I don't know enough about the legal details of heritage preservation. We must have members who know the nitty gritty of these. Rebecca HT? Others?

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[interchange42]

We have two more images now.


Looking east across St. Thomas Street at the west and south sides of the project.

Detail of the curved, fritted glass of the office tower portion.

 

[junctionist]

With all the new information and renderings interchange42 posted, it's clear that this project is very promising.

 

[Rebecca - HT]

Every plan is dealt with differently and there is general no swap over zoning with heritage preservation. It all depends on the zoning, the Councillor, the development as a whole, etc.