Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

It's more complicated than that!

I want the olympics but not at 25 billion dollars. That's crazy. But I guess I need to know the money that the city makes off the olympics as well. For instance does it cost them 25 billion to put on but they make 20 billion so the total loss is only 5 billion. Or after everything do they actually lose 25 billion?

As per Reguly's article, it really depends on which entity you are in the mix. The IOC and the local bid committee receive the cash from the broadcasters, etc. But most or all of the infrastructure (including arenas, etc.) seems to get built by government cash. Sorting out how much of the cost is borne directly by the taxpayer and how much is reimbursed from advertisers, broadcasters and ticket sales is incredibly complex.

Based on Reguly's numbers, I'd guesstimate that about half the tab seems to come from local and national governments. In Toronto, as the City is not allowed to run a deficit, this would mean the Ontario and Canadian governments paying about $12bn to host the Games. At least, that's my take. I'd love to hear alternate assessments, particularly where else cash would come from.

 

[nfitz]

In Toronto, as the City is not allowed to run a deficit, this would mean the Ontario and Canadian governments paying about $12bn to host the Games.

The city isn't allowed to run an operating deficit. They are allowed to run a capital deficit (up to a point). This is part of the reason we are replacing subway trains that are only 25-years old, rather than spending the extra money to make them last longer.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Any ideas how this affects a bid?

The city isn't allowed to run an operating deficit. They are allowed to run a capital deficit (up to a point). This is part of the reason we are replacing subway trains that are only 25-years old, rather than spending the extra money to make them last longer.

As a WCS (Worst Case Scenario) guy when it come to Olys, that sounds like we should be able to pile up a whack of debt and pay it off for 20 years, short-circuiting better projects... ;-)

 

[TOperson]

That RIGHT THERE is looking down your nose at millions of people. "Bought the Olympics propaganda"? Bullshit, you make it sound like they are inferior beings and obviously are only excited because they were manipulated, but you with your superior mind was not.

In fact, I think it is you who bought into propaganda. Anti-Olympic propaganda that a small group of people adopts to make themselves feel superior to everyone else every 2 years. However, I'm glad my mind is evolved enough to not fall for the anti-Olympic manipulation.



Whatever you say buddy.

So me and ALL the other anti-Olympic groups (which every bid and host city has, by the way - I assume you've looked at www.gamesmonitor.org.uk) are really just doing this to stroke our own egos? It has NOTHING to do with, oh, I don't know, not wanting billions of taxpayer money spent on a totally non-essential event, not wanting whole neighbourhoods of poor people displaced to make way for future white elephant facilities, not wanting to live in a police state for weeks, etc etc?

I don't see what the big deal is about noting that many people have bought into the Olympics propaganda. Propaganda WORKS. The whole of the opening ceremonies is propaganda. We ALL have to be careful about what we let get into our heads, whether it's about the Olympics or elections or consumer goods or whatever. The Olympics strikes me as one of the easiest to spot because the language and imagery are SO overblown. It's like watching Triumph of the Will.

 

[TOperson]

As per Reguly's article, it really depends on which entity you are in the mix. The IOC and the local bid committee receive the cash from the broadcasters, etc. But most or all of the infrastructure (including arenas, etc.) seems to get built by government cash. Sorting out how much of the cost is borne directly by the taxpayer and how much is reimbursed from advertisers, broadcasters and ticket sales is incredibly complex.

From what I've read so far, that sounds more or less correct. It's very difficult to get reliable final figures and decipher exactly who spent what. It gets spread around various budgets. My guess is that the federal and provincial return is expected to come from the tax revenue from all the economic activity generated by the games.

 

[TOperson]

Yikes. Just came across this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/07/olympics-london-hotels-slash-prices

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ry-london-during-the-olympics/article4451677/

And Doug Saunders weighs in with the news that this has actually been a very poor season for London tourism, particularly West End theatre and central London restaurants.

Mrs. RRR speculates that it might partially be the result of the much-higher-than-usual airline ticket prices this summer on the mainline routes (both AC and AF were multiples higher than usual when we booked to Paris although Air Transat was about usual).

I'm of two minds on this one. An Oly tourist would probably make a sidetrip to Niagara Falls, and it sounds like Mirvish would get hurt. But what of our two big live theatre destinations, Stratford and Shaw? As they're out of town and draw mainly by car from S. Ont. and the northern US, will they have a backlash or a small boost?

 

[Red October]

It has NOTHING to do with, oh, I don't know, not wanting billions of taxpayer money spent on a totally non-essential event

Is any event really "essential"? By that logic we should ban Nuit Blanche, Caribana, the Ex, Gay Pride, etc.

The entire point of the Olympics is a competition between countries and for people of hundreds of countries to have a good time, which it does very well.

not wanting whole neighbourhoods of poor people displaced to make way for future white elephant

Which didn't happen. Don't make up lies to try and help your argument. The Olympic Park was a brownfield wasteland and nobody was displaced.

 

[Red October]

Just so everybody knows.. Here is the "neighbourhoods of poor people" that were displaced for the Olympics:

Here is the Olympic Park 10 years ago:

Fridge dump - site of the Aquatics Centre.

Abandoned warehouse - site of main stadium.

Other side of the Olympic Stadium site.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Here's how it looked in mid-2011, still a year away from completion:

Rest of the park in mid-2011:
[video=youtube;pHvKWsCkiww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvKWsCkiww[/video]

Yeah... they were definitely better off before.

Both this and what they're doing over by the Pan Am Village (with West Don Park) shows how much an international event like this can benefit and revitalise a former wasteland.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Both this and what they're doing over by the Pan Am Village (with West Don Park) shows how much an international event like this can benefit and revitalise a former wasteland.

Nice photos -- where'd they come from? (I'm not doubting their provenance, just curious.)

IMO, though, you shouldn't be crediting anything in WDL to the Pan Ams except the moving up of timelines. Waterfront Toronto is the source of those plans, and the realization of those plans.

 

[Red October]

Nice photos -- where'd they come from? (I'm not doubting their provenance, just curious.)

IMO, though, you shouldn't be crediting anything in WDL to the Pan Ams except the moving up of timelines. Waterfront Toronto is the source of those plans, and the realization of those plans.

Fair enough, but events do tend to speed things up. I think the Olympics would give the city the kick in the ass to build the DRL for example.

The pictures came from a thread on skyscraperpage, which I think came from a post on skyscrapercity (confusing, I know).

Here's the post I got them from.

 

[TOperson]

"Just so everybody knows.. Here is the "neighbourhoods of poor people" that were displaced for the Olympics:"

A couple photos of a few dirty corners that could have been cleaned up WITHOUT the Olympics.

This site has an article from Counterpunch magazine (Dec 2011 issue) that discusses the displacement of poor people for pretty much every Olympics.

http://nogameschicago.com/

The folks at this website will tell you all about the displacement in London. The guy who started it got booted from his home.

http://www.gamesmonitor.org.uk/

And then there are the reports out of Rio:

http://rioonwatch.org/

 

[TOperson]

I guess this is just more anti-Olympics propaganda.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...the-olympics-as-long-as-they-re-not-held-here

 

[TOperson]

"Both this and what they're doing over by the Pan Am Village (with West Don Park) shows how much an international event like this can benefit and revitalise a former wasteland. "

Until it turns into a wasteland again like the Olympic sites in Athens, Beijing, etc etc.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TOperson:

Do you even know what they are building in the West Don Lands? It's permanent housing and community facilities (e.g. Y). Kind of like St. Lawrence in scale. A wasteland is what it had been for the past quarter of a century, if not more.

AoD