Tewder
Senior Member
Yes, I'm waiting for the conspiracy theory... and I'm willing to buy into one, I just haven't heard a good one yet.
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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)
- Thread starter Southcore
- Start date
js97
Senior Member
I can vet for Beijing. Was there 2009 on business and took a tour of their Olympic facilities.... except for tourist, the area was ghost town. Facilities where torn down, bike trails empty.
A quick google search will easily verify all this stuff.
West Don Lands would have been developed Games or no games (have you heard of the TO condo boom?)
Olympics is the biggest excuse to waste of citizens money, to quite frankly, benefit a few talented atheletes and entertain a bunch of rich sports enthusiasts...
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
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Sorry that I came up with reasonable arguments, then.
Tewder
Senior Member
... oh were those serious?
MisterF
Senior Member
The so called disappointing tourism numbers are hardly surprising. Wasn't the Olympics tourism phenomenon explained a few pages back? Nothing new in those articles.
The link with the table I posted with the example of Barcelona seems to be broken, so you might have missed it, I uploaded it again here:
Oh, I did read a few articles, and since they seemed strangely incomplete or decidedly misleading, I went and searched for papers instead. Here you can find a few:
http://www.tourismnortheast.co.uk/downloads/olympic_impact_on_tourism_study.pdf
http://www.gamesmonitor.org.uk/files/When-the-Games-Come-to-Town-M-Smith-2008.pdf
http://books.google.ca/books?id=GQz...1&ots=FEg_9_8h3u&dq=olympics&output=html_text
You'll see there's a pattern: tourism grows steadily for about 4 years previous to the Olympics, followed by a big spike the year of the event, then comes a dip in hotel occupancy the next year or two (fueled by the oversupply of hotel rooms left after the olympics, even if in some cases tourist numbers are steady, there are just too many rooms), and then a steady growth for about a decade. The articles that state tourism is negatively impacted by an Olympiad mainly concentrate on the two year slump after the games (the "peak and through" effect), and ignore the previous years of growth and the big rise that comes after a few years in most cases. They also seem to focus on hotel occupancy without explaining the natural oversupply after an event of this magnitude, or they talk about growth expressed in percentages instead of the actual number of tourists (it's more eye-catching to read "there was a 3% dip the next year!!!" than "total numbers went back to previous levels for a year or two before they started to rise again")
And please don't simplify my arguments. First: I said I think the Olympics CAN be a catalyst for tourism if done right. Of course, it's not always the case, but when it works, like with Barcelona, it works big time (and no, Barcelona is not the only Olympic Games that hasn't had a negative economic impact for the host city, it's just the brightest success. In fact, every Olympiad since 1984 has been profitable). Second: I never even said tourism was the main selling point for me, but the regeneration of former derelict areas, the homes that are built (both affordable and at market rates) and the transit infrastructure that's left as a legacy. And I think a city like Toronto can stand to gain a lot more than a city that already has that, like London.
Riverdale Rink Rat
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It sure doesn't sound like an argument to be FOR an Oly, though, does it?
TOperson
Active Member
It's not the city, i.e. the municipal government, that does the bidding. It's a group formed specifically to make the bid (usually has lots of development industry people in it, with some athletes and careerist community leaders throw in for good optics). They have to sell the various levels of govt, plus the country's own Olympic committee, plus the general public, on the idea. It's not unusual for Bid groups to spend millions on this sales job.
Their selling points are many of the thing you've mentioned: increased tourism, re-development of derelict areas, new athletic facilities, improved infrastructure, money from senior levels to do all this stuff. These campaigns can be as well-designed as any other, and a certain number of people (including elected officials) will buy into them. They'll believe what they are being told. And in general it's pretty easy to stir emotions with sports, and to play on national pride. I think one of the main objectives of the big spectacle of the opening ceremony is to so dazzle the eye and tug at the heart that even the critics get swept up and sort of forgive & forget.
Unfortunately, as we've seen with so many cities, the games don't deliver on their promises. Even that wouldn't be so bad if it didn't cost so much money.
TOperson
Active Member
That idea has been floating around for a while. Here's a quote from Noam Chomsky:
When I was in high school... I asked myself at one point: "Why do i care if my high school's team wins the football game? I don't know anybody on the team, they have nothing to do with me... why am I here and applauding? It does not make any sense." But the point is, it does make sense: It's a way of building up irrational attitudes of submission to authority and group cohesion behind leadership elements. In fact it's training in irrational jingoism. That's also a feature of competitive sports.
Some people go a lot further, even analyzing the symbolism of London 2012 for Illuminati references, etc.
Personally, I don't think it's a stretch to say that if one wanted to control a large group of people, providing them with lots of distracting spectacles like (but not limited to) big sports competitions would be a good way to do it. Bread and circuses and all that.
Red October
Senior Member
I'm sure Noam was a hit at parties.
Thanos
Active Member
Don't forget to add opera, theatre shows, festivals, etc.
While were at it we should all just stay home and do absolutely nothing. Cheer for absolutely nothing. And never have any type of dreams whatsoever.
Red October
Senior Member
You don't get it, having any sort of fun at all is just because we fall for propaganda. You're a sheeple.
MisterF
Senior Member
Yes actually, it does, if you read the research.
Thanos
Active Member
Completely agree. Ah, what's the point of living then. Just get me the blade Architect, I'll take care of the rest. Anything to ensure i don't fall victim to some Olympic propaganda. Hell even the home part is nothing more then a scam by developers. I'm selling the condo. Architect, can you help me build a treehouse?
Now i feel like a bigger tool considering i volunteered at the 2004 Olympics. TOperson, is there anything you can do to help me get those 2 weeks of my life back? I never considered myself as a sheep but how i can argue with everything you've said so far.
TOperson
Active Member
I said "distracting spectacles" (and "not limited to big sports competitions"). I did not say "all sports and forms of creative expression".
This is at least the third time this I've smashed this argument. I've never said that no other events should ever be held in Toronto again. I've only been arguing against the Olympics - an event that by any measure is exceptionally large, disruptive and expensive.
Thanos
Active Member
And how do you define "distracting spectacle"? Who decides on what is a "distracting spectacle"? To me and millions others the Olympics are far from a "distracting spectacle".
There are many events that are large and expensive. Once we get rid of the Olympics another event will be considered the largest and most expensive. Do we get rid of that event? And then continue until there's not a single event left?