Toronto 191 Bay | 301.74m | 64s | QuadReal | Hariri Pontarini

[Automation Gallery]

it strikes me anew how unfortunate it is that the elegant original tower is so overshadowed by the rude bulk of this glassy new monstrosity.

Ugh, lol? Its been over 20 yrs that the original CIBC building has been invisible in our skyline
unless you are standing on King street, good luck in getting a full glimpse of it

 

[Irishmonk]

This may not be a perfect design for this site yet, but at least HP--our local A-team--is designing it, and not one of the usual copy +paste, hack outfits. That's pretty much what the state of architecture in this town has been reduced to.

 

[cd concept]

Just move the building a little more to the east of the proposed site. To give more breathing space to the court yard and other Commerce buildings. That will solve the problem!

 

[Lenser]

Ugh, lol? Its been over 20 yrs that the original CIBC building has been invisible in our skyline
unless you are standing on King street, good luck in getting a full glimpse of it
View attachment 131408

True enough. But I'm down in that area all the time, walking around with my camera, and I love seeing it from the few angles there are where it's still visible. Sad to think of it being fully boxed in, but I guess that's the price of progress and city-building.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Architecturally speaking I'm not sure that this is progress. I've read that Pei's Commerce Court is the city's best example of the International style, and CCN is perhaps the most attractive tall building in the FD. Is HP's building that will undoubtedly crowd and overwhelm them really all that good?

 

[jaybe]

This perspective really drives home how disrespectful this tower is of the original Commerce Court.


The tower needs to be slimmer and keep within the limits of the existing lower rise tower there now.

It appears I'm in a minority here but I like the concept. Replacing the slab on the corner of Bay and Wellington with a glass pavilion will open up the courtyard and make it much more visible and accessible to pedestrians on the street. It will also create new views of CCN that were not available. While it is a change from the original, I wouldn't call it disrespectful.

 

[maestro]

How is sympathetic to Commerce Court? It destroys half of it. Replaces it with an overpowering mass of post postmodernism or whatever name today's trends go by. There's not much of a courtyard left. There's just enough room for the fountain. (note: a smaller more intimate space is not necessarily a bad thing) The current courtyard isn't that popular.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Also don't forget there's a lot of of stuff going inside the glass pavilion such as supporting structures. This is a highly idealized rendering afterall so probably not nearly as permeable or view permitting as imagined. I'm also not convinced it will be built with all-glass in this climate, it just seems very fanciful to me- memories of the ROM crystal.

 

[CharmAlarm]

View attachment 131413
It appears I'm in a minority here but I like the concept. Replacing the slab on the corner of Bay and Wellington with a glass pavilion will open up the courtyard and make it much more visible and accessible to pedestrians on the street. It will also create new views of CCN that were not available. While it is a change from the original, I wouldn't call it disrespectful.

While this may be a 'slab' it is a respectful one that plays off the limestone exterior of the old Commerce Court North building, and, in the photo above, also plays off the old Bank of Nova Scotia building at Bay and King with somewhat similar dimensions and recessing of the windows (at least from the perspective of that streetview shot). Note also that the Brookfield place podium was designed to match the height of the 5 storey CCS to create a matching streetwall on Wellington.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

I think @maestro made a good point about the current courtyard being underused. One of the problems, in my opinion, actually is CCS in its current iteration.

Unlike the TD Centre, where the courtyard is permeable in the north-south direction (the more useful mid-block connection for pedestrians given the width (east-west) of blocks in the Financial District, the Commerce Court courtyard is (easily) permeable only east-west. This makes it far less useful to pedestrians, thus less discovered & used. In my experience, the TD Centre courtyard is never empty, the Commerce Court one is empty frequently.

If this project can address that present failing of the courtyard, that would be a plus.

Also, while I won't comment upon the architectural style or significance of CCS and CCE, I do agree with those who are of the view that they do not address Wellington appropriately, making it one of the more dead blocks in the Financial District from the perspective of pedestrian street life.

These concerns could be addressed in ways that do not demolish and replace the existing buildings. However, if those buildings are destined to go, the opportunity should be used to fix the courtyard and Wellington streetfronts.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I worked in CCW for awhile and do recall the courtyard being under-used at the time. I imagine it will be even more windswept with the addition of such a large building. I would love to see other ideas rather than this just one proposal and it would be fascinating to see what Pei himself would do if asked to rework the site. However he will be 101 years old this Spring so probably not in the game anymore.

 

[salsa]

This perspective really drives home how disrespectful this tower is of the original Commerce Court.

You're complaining over a fictitious perspective that exists more in render-world than in reality.

I understand the concern about Commerce Court being overshadowed, but isn't that already a lost cause? Are you also opposed to all these towers that surround it?

 

[3Dementia]

Don't know who owns the medium rise to the east but it appears to be shrouded by this chubby fella... so sacrifice it and move the tower east (along with a weight loss program). Shame that we can't switch the locations of Harry's 1 King and the original Commerce beauty.

Don't get the temporary-looking world's fair circa 1980-looking carbuncle to the west of the tower ... even in the render it looks like an add on by an HP junior. Good place for a wedding I guess.

 

[freshcutgrass]

It's a shame they couldn't have aquired that unfortunate homunculus on the north-west corner of Yonge & Wellington and put the tower there. That way the loss of CCE & CCS would have transformed the court into something quite impressively civic minded, rather than the closed private setting it now provides. It would also allow wonderful open sitelines to actually view all 3 towers in their glory.

 

[TransitBart]

This may not be a perfect design for this site yet, but at least HP--our local A-team--is designing it, and not one of the usual copy +paste, hack outfits. That's pretty much what the state of architecture in this town has been reduced to.

Ouch.