Toronto Ïce Condominiums at York Centre | 234.07m | 67s | Lanterra | a—A

Toronto was going to have a bonafide WTC.. Now we just have condos of the WTC.. Very fitting, isn't it? - Actually, there are two World Trade Centre office towers in Toronto, that were built before the crash.

Seems like almost every city in the world has one or two "World Trade Centres".
 
Those two towers are the condos of the WTC. The office component (the actual WTC) never made it past paper. To summarize, the current WTC in Toronto is located in FCP.
 
3Dementia said:
That's just irresponsible... (except perhaps to their owners/shareholders).
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Not irresponsible, just unfortunate.

Also, this expectation that developers should enthusiastically build huge office towers is ridiculous. Put yourself in their position. Condos are selling like hotcakes, a trend expected to continue for the foreseeable future. Office vacancies are at record lows, but there's already a large amount of office space being built, with more planned and approved. Are you really going to spend time and money building a fantastic office tower? No, you'll probably build to the bare minimum office requirements and focus on the condos -- and probably build them first.
 
If the 99 Blue Jays Way application gets approved and proceeds, I think this would be a great place for Wayne Gretzkys to relocate to. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the 16 York complex, it could go in 18 York, Infinity (if there are large enough units available) or at the NE corner of Bremner and Simcoe. Basically anywhere along Bremner. Hell, maybe they could get another variance for the building to be addressed as 99 Bremner Blvd. The area screams for another sports themed restaurant bar in addition to the future at MLS.

Since CF and Lanterra are building the MLS one, I doubt they would put in a competing sports themed restaurant bar at 16 York. Who knows if it will happen, but it's just something that I thought of. Hey, maybe even an ESPN Zone could go here.
 
Totally agree... but one rocket scientist might join MLG and say "hey, Wayne Gretzky's is a great brand to have right next to the ACC."

"But Wayne wasn't a Leaf". "Yeah, but he was born and raised an hour or so away and might be the most important Canadian sports hero in history... so maybe it's an opportunity?".
 
If the 99 Blue Jays Way application gets approved and proceeds, I think this would be a great place for Wayne Gretzkys to relocate to. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the 16 York complex, it could go in 18 York, Infinity (if there are large enough units available) or at the NE corner of Bremner and Simcoe. Basically anywhere along Bremner. Hell, maybe they could get another variance for the building to be addressed as 99 Bremner Blvd. The area screams for another sports themed restaurant bar in addition to the future at MLS.
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Wasn't the plan for a smaller Wayne's Gretzky's inside the new 99 Blue Jays Way complex? Still, it would probably make more sense to move entirely next to the ACC. I wonder if that stretch would then revert back to Peter St.
 
Filip said:
Those two towers are the condos of the WTC. The office component (the actual WTC) never made it past paper. To summarize, the current WTC in Toronto is located in FCP.
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Which, weirdly enough, is structurally similar to Yamasaki's WTC.

Would 10-20 Bay count as a sole built vestige of whatever WTC-esque plans in Toronto at the time?
 
adma said:
Which, weirdly enough, is structurally similar to Yamasaki's WTC.

Would 10-20 Bay count as a sole built vestige of whatever WTC-esque plans in Toronto at the time?
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I guess.. I would also say that 10-20 Bay is the last vestige of anything WTC-esque in Toronto. The days of building a WTC for the prestige of it are long gone. Especially in such a conservative market like Toronto.
 
you can't blame developers.


After seeing the scary sights of 14-16% vacancy rates in the early 1990's, they don't want to compromise themselves.


Its not irresponsbile.

You can say know,in Toronto you can build a 100 story condo tower.

However lets say by the time you get it ready to sell, the market crashes. Tell me, why would you think the developer must forcefully send himself to ruin???
 
3Dementia said:
Totally agree... but one rocket scientist might join MLG and say "hey, Wayne Gretzky's is a great brand to have right next to the ACC."

"But Wayne wasn't a Leaf". "Yeah, but he was born and raised an hour or so away and might be the most important Canadian sports hero in history... so maybe it's an opportunity?".
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If there was someone half as smart as a rocket scientist working at MLSE then maybe the Leafs wouldn't be as horrible as they have been since Gretzky and his Kings beat the Leafs in '93. There's been lots of missed opportunities when it comes to drafting and trading away prospects...but that's a whole different story. Although a winning team going far in the playoffs will help keep the venues they have built/are building full longer and sell more merchandise in their large MLSE store(s).

Darkstar416 said:
Wasn't the plan for a smaller Wayne's Gretzky's inside the new 99 Blue Jays Way complex? Still, it would probably make more sense to move entirely next to the ACC. I wonder if that stretch would then revert back to Peter St.
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I don't know if they are moving back to the 99 Blue Jays Way complex. I very quickly scanned the rezoning application and I didn't notice any mentioning of it moving back. I might have missed it or it was a rumour floating around elsewhere, don't know. I just thought that if it was gonna close, might try somewhere else.
 
Gretzky's should look for space as close as possible to the Hockey Hall of Fame. Both the Hall and the restaurant would benefit from a close proximity to each other - the area would certainly be more of a tourist destination if they were neighbours.

With the opera and ballet gone from the Sony Centre, and with the whole place closing shortly, I wouldn't want to be owing Shopsy's right now, for example. They must have already laid off a lot of staff, and I'm sure it will just get worse. So, I'd move Gretzky's into Shopsy's: you'd have the same physical thing - a restaurant - but you would also have a social synergy that is not there between the Hall and Shopsy's.

Where would I eventually reopen Shopsy's? Well, it would probably do fine between the stadium and the arena in a new complex on Bremner near York...

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... or alternatively, for Shopsy's, somewhere along King Street, in proximity to the theatres but not so far from the Rogers Centre.

I had always thought of Shopsy's as catering to the theatre / opera / etc. crowd at the Hummingbird, years ago. Probably that has now changed, given that the Hummingbird isn't even the Hummingbird, and the opera and ballet are gone.
 
interchange42 said:
Gretzky's should look for space as close as possible to the Hockey Hall of Fame. Both the Hall and the restaurant would benefit from a close proximity to each other - the area would certainly be more of a tourist destination if they were neighbours.

With the opera and ballet gone from the Sony Centre, and with the whole place closing shortly, I wouldn't want to be owing Shopsy's right now, for example. They must have already laid off a lot of staff, and I'm sure it will just get worse. So, I'd move Gretzky's into Shopsy's: you'd have the same physical thing - a restaurant - but you would also have a social synergy that is not there between the Hall and Shopsy's.

Where would I eventually reopen Shopsy's? Well, it would probably do fine between the stadium and the arena in a new complex on Bremner near York...

42
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I think Shopseys is still doing okay. There's a lot of workers in the area.
 
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