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Time for a tunnel to airport island?

Quite frankly, if the airport was to go, I would be quite happy to see development their instead. I just don't understand the desire for more parkland. There's lots of parklands on the Islands already, and to be honest, it isn't the easiest place to get to. I'd think the whole thing would be generally better if there was more of a balance of land uses - which would result in better use of the parks.

Though I expect to be hugely outnumbered ...
 
Not sure I agree

Not sure I agree that to make the intensified sustainable community work (with tourist accommodation/amenity) that you need a road-based connection to the island.

I enjoyed my stay in Venice where there weren't even delivery vans, at all.

Everything went by canal (boat).

A redeveloped Island Airport could follow that model; or could make use of bicycle or even horse-drawn delivery.

Roads on the islands already allow for fire department access from the islands-based station.

Not trying to be difficult here, LOL

I'm just not sure that once you put a road across you don't actually diminish the tourist value as well as the lifestyle premium you could charge condo owners.

I figure the novelty of the car-free thing with narrow lanes, blah blah....gotta be worth 150k a unit.
 
Anecdotally, I would ass, the area has consistently elected anti-airport Councillors (Chow, Vaughan etc); was always very supportive of anti-airport Mayoral candidates; and just in my own experience, talking with folks who live i the area ..... I hear about very few who are champions of the airport; some who are neutral, but by far the largest group have varying degrees of hostility to it.
Well, far be it for me to defend Vaughan & Chow, but its not really fair to paint them as one issue candidates. People could vote for them for any number of reasons, from incumbent biases to their stance on dozens of other issues. Its also true that, even if everybody who voted for Vaughan was a raging CAIR type, the guy only got 7,800 votes total in a ward of about 60k people, so I would be skeptical of treating City Councilors as being the unambiguous will of their constituents.

The last time I remember serious polling being done on YTZ was in '04, where 53% opposed it. I would bet that experiencing Porter as customers and just generally being near YTZ, most people have come to the conclusion that YTZ has no unreasonable noise pollution levels and has hardly turned the waterfront into the industrial apocalypse some predicted. I for one have yet to be disturbed by Porter, ever.
 
Hmm, a looooong tunnel en route to and from a nude beach. Sounds a little dicey, especially if you're female

What....a female would be more shocked to see a diving horse than some naked guy.:D

The_diving_horse_at_Hanlan27s_Point.jpg
 
A redeveloped Island Airport could follow that model; or could make use of bicycle or even horse-drawn delivery.

Roads on the islands already allow for fire department access from the islands-based station.

Not trying to be difficult here, LOL

I'm just not sure that once you put a road across you don't actually diminish the tourist value as well as the lifestyle premium you could charge condo owners.

I figure the novelty of the car-free thing with narrow lanes, blah blah....gotta be worth 150k a unit.

You probably want to think about this a bit more. Very few people would pay a premium to be stranded on an island where they could only get goods by horse drawn cart or bicycle when it is -20 out and a wind is coming off the lake. I personally wouldn't take it for free.

I would also note that hardly anybody lives in Venice. Its basically a resort for tourists as nobody can afford the costs of living there for more than a few weeks.

Ultimately, we will either want to make the Islands part of the city or leave them be. The former would require some pretty substantial investments in infrastructure to make the area able to support 21st century businesses and a residential population. Some people value the island's disconnectedness, and if that had to be retained then it basically doesn't matter if YTZ is there or not, as it wont fundamentally be part of the city.
 
No need for Food by Horse

You probably want to think about this a bit more. Very few people would pay a premium to be stranded on an island where they could only get goods by horse drawn cart or bicycle when it is -20 out and a wind is coming off the lake. I personally wouldn't take it for free.

I would also note that hardly anybody lives in Venice. Its basically a resort for tourists as nobody can afford the costs of living there for more than a few weeks.

:p

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone would get their groceries by ferrying over to the mainland.

I would contemplate a grocery store and/or butchers/ farmer's markets etc.
on the island.

I was suggesting that you could have the back end of the grocer up against the water and just send the stuff over by boat/ferry etc. You could even ferry the trailer of a tractor trailer over, and just position it to directly offload into the store (without it ever having to drive on the island itself).

Though, I hasten to add I don't see the island as that isolated currently or that difficult to get groceries to and from.

Right now you hop a ferry (fairly frequent service, sunrise to midnight) you get off, you go over to Loblaws or Queen's Quay, grab 2 bags, walk back to the ferry your home and done. Big deal.

Most downtown residents walk 10-25 min to their store of choice and then walk the groceries back home, they typically shop 2-3 times a week which keeps the load per trip light, on their way home from work or school.

No reason that can't work just fine. Keep in mind there is a ferry in place @ Bathurst now; and Loblaws has proposed a store @ Bathurst & Lakeshore.

That said, I was meaning for their to be a grocery store in any development.

Just not a fleet of local delivery vans etc.
 
Well, far be it for me to defend Vaughan & Chow, but its not really fair to paint them as one issue candidates. People could vote for them for any number of reasons, from incumbent biases to their stance on dozens of other issues.
Yep. Chow was a very active member of the community, and obviously it can't hurt that a Chinese-speaking candidate ran in area covering Chinatown either.

The last time I remember serious polling being done on YTZ was in '04, where 53% opposed it. I would bet that experiencing Porter as customers and just generally being near YTZ, most people have come to the conclusion that YTZ has no unreasonable noise pollution levels and has hardly turned the waterfront into the industrial apocalypse some predicted. I for one have yet to be disturbed by Porter, ever.
Very true. Everyone I know who has taken Porter absolutely loves it... well... except for the fact they have to wait for a ferry to get to the airport.



:p

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone would get their groceries by ferrying over to the mainland.

I would contemplate a grocery store and/or butchers/ farmer's markets etc.
on the island.

I was suggesting that you could have the back end of the grocer up against the water and just send the stuff over by boat/ferry etc. You could even ferry the trailer of a tractor trailer over, and just position it to directly offload into the store (without it ever having to drive on the island itself).

Though, I hasten to add I don't see the island as that isolated currently or that difficult to get groceries to and from.

Right now you hop a ferry (fairly frequent service, sunrise to midnight) you get off, you go over to Loblaws or Queen's Quay, grab 2 bags, walk back to the ferry your home and done. Big deal.

Most downtown residents walk 10-25 min to their store of choice and then walk the groceries back home, they typically shop 2-3 times a week which keeps the load per trip light, on their way home from work or school.

No reason that can't work just fine. Keep in mind there is a ferry in place @ Bathurst now; and Loblaws has proposed a store @ Bathurst & Lakeshore.

That said, I was meaning for their to be a grocery store in any development.

Just not a fleet of local delivery vans etc.
Extremely inefficient. And Toronto Island is no Venice anyway.

And yes, I too would support condo development on the island if the Airport were killed... but that would require a tunnel or a bridge too.
 
Though, I hasten to add I don't see the island as that isolated currently or that difficult to get groceries to and from.

Right now you hop a ferry (fairly frequent service, sunrise to midnight) you get off, you go over to Loblaws or Queen's Quay, grab 2 bags, walk back to the ferry your home and done. Big deal.

Both my girlfriend and my aunt, uncle, and cousins grew up on the island, and although they loved aspects of it, they all say that it's a much bigger pain than you're making it out to be.

The last ferry back to Ward's island (where the people live) is 11:00-11:30 pm (depending on the day and the time of year, which is itself a pain to keep track of) and if you miss it, you either have to get a hotel room for the night in the city or hope the water taxi guy is around somewhere (which he probably won't be at that hour). I certainly wouldn't want to have an 11:00pm curfew every night. Oh, and it really sucks to be them when there's a public workers strike and the regular ferry is cancelled (there's an emergency service for residents, but there's restrictions on the packages you can bring on it). You also quite often find yourself missing a ferry by 10 minutes and having to wait an hour for another one, which is a huge pain.

I'm also not sure that "most" downtown residents walk to the grocery store for their regular shopping, but even if they do I guarantee that it's more of a pain from the islands. Also, people on the mainland have the option of taking a cab if they're buying something heavy...that's never an option on the islands. And forget about buying a new stove or something big like that...if you don't have your own boat it's a huge pain to bring over.

That also leaves out the point that, really, there's nothing to do on the islands. They're a great place to visit for the day if you live in the city, but if you live there the attractions get old pretty quickly (and what attractions there are are all closed in the winter...in the winter it's truly a dead zone).

Even though most island residents I know love it there and would never leave, I definitely don't think it's a lifestyle for everyone.
 
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I'm also not sure that "most" downtown residents walk to the grocery store for their regular shopping...
Regular, as in every 2-3 days, what have we run out of ... I suspect many, if not most do. Regular as in once every 2-3 weeks go get the big things that you don't want to carry - probably not.

Most of the downtown grocery stores seem to have a lot more people walking in them, than parking.
 
Regular, as in every 2-3 days, what have we run out of ... I suspect many, if not most do. Regular as in once every 2-3 weeks go get the big things that you don't want to carry - probably not.

Well, although debating the relative frequencies of walking versus driving for downtown shopping really wasn't the point of my post, your second sentence provides support for what I was saying. Downtown residents have the option of driving or taking a cab for the shopping trips that involve buying big things that you don't want to carry...island residents never have that option.
 
Point taken ... can't say I'd want to live out there. Perhaps we should propose building them a bridge too ... from Unwin across the channel. :)
 
Give me their overhead $$$$$$$, i would live there any day.:rolleyes:

Judging from the ridiculously long waiting list to get a house on the island and prevailing attitudes towards island residents (which from what I've seen are generally pretty close to the above), it's actually probably true that you could get a hefty premium for island houses.

I just think that a number of these people may regret their purchase once they actually had to live there for a couple of years.
 
To begin with, clearly the airport is not popular amongst the downtown community.

This downtown resident likes having the airport there. I haven't used Porter yet but would consider it for trips to NYC, Montreal, etc. It's certainly easier than hauling ass out to Pearson.

I have a friend who lives in one of the Queen's Quay condos. He faces the island airport. I've been at his place when planes land and take off. The noise is minimal and certainly wouldn't bother me if I lived there. It's actually quieter than the streetcar rumbling along King St W. around Spadina.
 
This downtown resident likes having the airport there.

+1

I have used Porter and I like it. I live at Spadina and Richmond, so maybe not in the area most affected by the airport, but I'm definitely a downtown resident and I have nothing against the airport.
 

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