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Time for a tunnel to airport island?
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nfitz
Superstar
Catapult?
kEiThZ
Superstar
If you think they don't seem busy it's because 1 million pax per year translates to only about 50-60 flights a day (1 every 10-12 mins). At that rate, I am fairly sure the airport would appear to be "not busy" compared to say, Pearson. Given that Porter is set to double their fleet size this year (and is one of the few airlines globally that has not severely delayed or cancelled deliveries) and that reports are emerging that Porter may have up to 30% of the Corridor's air travel market share, I have no doubts at all that Porter will hit a million passengers in a year or two...bridge, tunnel, or otherwise.
I don't think it would qualify because of the timeline and matching contributions requirements....but I don't blame them for trying.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Could they not some way some how build another pedestrian tunnel under the City Centre Airport runway and connect to Hanlans Point foot/bike paths.
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ They could. It's entirely feasible. But as long as any tunnel or bridge is seen to benefit Porter it won't happen.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
So you have a city saying no to a tunnel even though you have an upcoming airport that soon will be transporting over one million people. Only in Toronto.
adma
Superstar
Hmm, a looooong tunnel en route to and from a nude beach. Sounds a little dicey, especially if you're female
Eug
Senior Member
I've never understood Miller's antagonism to the the bridge.
I lived in the area, and the only thing I could see was this benefitting the area, and the city in general. Remember, this is not rural Ontario. This is downtown Toronto, and we should expect downtown Toronto to be a business hub. Saddling YTZ with the ferry requirement really makes no sense in that context.
P.S. How much did it cost to shut down the bridge anyway? I've heard $35 million, but the details have never been disclosed. $35 million is actually more than the cost of the bridge. Bureaucrats at work...
I lived in the area, and the only thing I could see was this benefitting the area, and the city in general. Remember, this is not rural Ontario. This is downtown Toronto, and we should expect downtown Toronto to be a business hub. Saddling YTZ with the ferry requirement really makes no sense in that context.
P.S. How much did it cost to shut down the bridge anyway? I've heard $35 million, but the details have never been disclosed. $35 million is actually more than the cost of the bridge. Bureaucrats at work...
Northern Light
Superstar
No tunnel; and while we're at it.....
No tunnel; and while we're at it.....
No Airport either.
***
I'm far from a militant on the subject of the Island Airport, I don't live in the core or on the Islands.
That said; I see quite a few downsides to its operation; and many more pluses to its demolition.
To begin with, clearly the airport is not popular amongst the downtown community. Now if that antagonism was offset by a vast gain for the City as a whole.........but I don't see that it is.
Yes it provides a slightly cushier and quicker airport experience that Pearson, providing you have a short-haul destination......but the airport has no runway expansion capability, it can't handle (and people would flip) if you put down full-sized jets. That inherently limits the functional use of the place; not to mention the paranoid 9/11 type security thoughts.
Leave air traffic to the GTAA; and turn Hamilton Airport into a second full-fledged International Airport, if Pearson needs the support.
***
In the alternative; you could imagine over 100 acres of new parks; or even a small wilderness area (I've canoed behind the airport and its quite serene except for the airport part! LOL)
OR you could envision a new sustainable community, car-free, near downtown, similar to the existing Islands community but denser, with a retail hub for tourists, who can then stroll to and island beach. Could be a model community and yet highly profitable for taxpayers. As opposed to the airport which is a sinkhole for money and hack patronage appointed boards and staff.
Either option or something else?? But either way much better than the airport.
No tunnel; and while we're at it.....
No Airport either.
***
I'm far from a militant on the subject of the Island Airport, I don't live in the core or on the Islands.
That said; I see quite a few downsides to its operation; and many more pluses to its demolition.
To begin with, clearly the airport is not popular amongst the downtown community. Now if that antagonism was offset by a vast gain for the City as a whole.........but I don't see that it is.
Yes it provides a slightly cushier and quicker airport experience that Pearson, providing you have a short-haul destination......but the airport has no runway expansion capability, it can't handle (and people would flip) if you put down full-sized jets. That inherently limits the functional use of the place; not to mention the paranoid 9/11 type security thoughts.
Leave air traffic to the GTAA; and turn Hamilton Airport into a second full-fledged International Airport, if Pearson needs the support.
***
In the alternative; you could imagine over 100 acres of new parks; or even a small wilderness area (I've canoed behind the airport and its quite serene except for the airport part! LOL)
OR you could envision a new sustainable community, car-free, near downtown, similar to the existing Islands community but denser, with a retail hub for tourists, who can then stroll to and island beach. Could be a model community and yet highly profitable for taxpayers. As opposed to the airport which is a sinkhole for money and hack patronage appointed boards and staff.
Either option or something else?? But either way much better than the airport.
nfitz
Superstar
What's the basis for this assumption. Anyone I've talked who lives around there has been neutral to positive about the airport. There's always going to a be a few Nimbys on any issue ... but where are the numbers to show that there isn't community support?
Whoaccio
Senior Member
This is basically the only situation under which I would even begin to support removing YTZ, and even then the proposal would have to be pretty damn extraordinary for it to work. Suffice to say, I wouldn't want to just have YTZ replaced by some townhouses for retired teachers and the odd Rabba. It would have to include actual businesses, schools, services and residential units by design, not function as a publicly supported resort for the first 100 people to sign a lease.
Any serious effort to turn the YTZ into a 'public' area would have to entail some pretty fundamental changes to the islands though, including decent road access (at the very least a link to Bathurst as well as the Portlands), some kind of high order link to the CBD and the utilities (gas, water, electricity) to support it all. There would be no point in replacing YTZ with a resort for the Leon Robinovitchs of this world. The upshot being, as much as CAIR types don't like YTZ, they might not necessarily like the Islands becoming a fully integrated part of the city, either.
Thats not really grounded in reality. Most studies on HSR concluded that there was only minimal amount of traffic that would be diverted from air travel, even under optimistic conditions (like assuming air travel rates would remain unchanged). Q400's would likely be able to beat an HSR on travel costs. For the amount of money the private sector alone was expected to contribute to HSR, you could buy about 1,500 Q400's, and they turn an operating profit at about 40-50% occupancy. So, nobody really expects HSR to poach air travel. Even in Europe, discount air travel ridership growths have far outstripped HSR ridership gains.
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Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I totally agree with you. Once the Quebec-Windsor corridor gets High Speed Rail, Porter's main services will be rendered totally obsolete. Basically all other trips will make more sense to just go by Pearson, and nobody will choose porter once Blue22's up and running.
And I think that houses would be the best thing to do with that airport land if it shuts down. Of course, I'm the person that things high rises on the Leslie Spit would be just awesome
Eug
Senior Member
What I've noticed is that some in the immediate area oppose it. (I lived there but supported it.)
Elsewhere, many people love the idea, esp. the true central core business types. They love the idea of not having to content with traffic at 4 pm to get to Pearson, esp. when some can even do day trips. However, when Miller was elected, one local poll had 53% of Torontonians opposing it.
When I go to Montreal, I take the train, because going to Pearson is such a PITA. However, I'd strongly consider taking Porter if I still lived in the downtown core.
Northern Light
Superstar
Basis for Assumption of community opposition
I'm not privy to any recent polling data;
However
When it comes to this area's opposition to the Island Airport, apart from Community Air (which I gather has a quite a few members); last I heard, all of the neighbourhood associations have anti-airport policies on the record (either eliminate it, or no expansion, no jets etc. etc.)
Anecdotally, I would ass, the area has consistently elected anti-airport Councillors (Chow, Vaughan etc); was always very supportive of anti-airport Mayoral candidates; and just in my own experience, talking with folks who live i the area ..... I hear about very few who are champions of the airport; some who are neutral, but by far the largest group have varying degrees of hostility to it.
I'm not privy to any recent polling data;
However
When it comes to this area's opposition to the Island Airport, apart from Community Air (which I gather has a quite a few members); last I heard, all of the neighbourhood associations have anti-airport policies on the record (either eliminate it, or no expansion, no jets etc. etc.)
Anecdotally, I would ass, the area has consistently elected anti-airport Councillors (Chow, Vaughan etc); was always very supportive of anti-airport Mayoral candidates; and just in my own experience, talking with folks who live i the area ..... I hear about very few who are champions of the airport; some who are neutral, but by far the largest group have varying degrees of hostility to it.
Northern Light
Superstar
And I think that houses would be the best thing to do with that airport land if it shuts down. Of course, I'm the person that things high rises on the Leslie Spit would be just awesome
ACK! You wouldn't dare!
And here I was agreeing with everything else you had to say!
You know I saw a nesting pair of Bald Eagles there a few months back.
Love that. No highrises there!