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Time-Based Versus Distance-Based Fares

Zonal and distance based fares discourage counterflow use. They also penalize a small portion of the ridership in order to give a slight discount to the remainder (10% @ $5 & 65% @ $2.12 instead of 100% @ $2.50). Zonal fares discourage use of public transit over private vehicles for cross-town journeys.

I would suggest a system of not time or distance restricted, but transfers. For one TTC fare you get 3 routes, you need a second fare for 4 or more. If TTC goes with PRESTO, then there are any number of options for giving incentives for more TTC use.

Let's not forget, GO/TTC have the highest fare box return of any transit system in North America. There is only so much you can do to make transit profitable when roads are fully subsidized.
 
I gave this some thought a couple days ago. This scenario is assuming fare integration of course.

The GTA would be divided into 7 zones (I thought using the ROYGBIV colour scheme would make it easy for people to identify and relate to). Base fare for local and municipal rapid transit is $2.50, with an extra $0.50 for each additional zone travelled. GO would have a base fare of $2.50 as well, but with an extra $1 for each zone travelled. The idea is that only rapid transit routes cross over in between zones (or local routes barely cross over into the next zone). This of course would require a more decent number of rapid transit lines to be built.

The average trip would work like this: assume you start in Zone 2 (suburban Toronto). You would get on the bus, swipe your card, and it would charge you the base fare ($2.50). The bus would take you to the nearest rapid transit station, where you would swipe again either at the turnstile (subway), or at the POP machine (LRT). You wouldn't be charged, but the system would register that you entered the rapid transit system. Take the subway to Zone 1 (downtown), where you would need to swipe your card on exit, where you would be charged the extra $0.50 for crossing over the zone boundary.

For passes, I was thinking three types of passes could be sold:
1) A 'home zone' pass, where it was good for unlimited travel within your zone (for someone who lives and works in downtown, this would be the best option).
2) A 'home zone' pass, with an additional pre-paid option there for if you cross over a zone boundary on occasion.
3) A 'zone to zone' pass, for unlimited travel over X number of zones, increasing in cost the more zones you cross.

The 4th option would be a prepaid card, where you simply load the amount you want on it, and pay using it like a prepaid credit card.


The biggest question with most distance-based systems is how do you monitor bus use across fare boundaries. By making the fare zones large enough that buses can efficiently run within them, this problem is nearly eliminated.
 
gweed123 said:
I gave this some thought a couple days ago. This scenario is assuming fare integration of course.

The GTA would be divided into 7 zones (I thought using the ROYGBIV colour scheme would make it easy for people to identify and relate to). Base fare for local and municipal rapid transit is $2.50, with an extra $0.50 for each additional zone travelled. GO would have a base fare of $2.50 as well, but with an extra $1 for each zone travelled. The idea is that only rapid transit routes cross over in between zones (or local routes barely cross over into the next zone). This of course would require a more decent number of rapid transit lines to be built.

The average trip would work like this: assume you start in Zone 2 (suburban Toronto). You would get on the bus, swipe your card, and it would charge you the base fare ($2.50). The bus would take you to the nearest rapid transit station, where you would swipe again either at the turnstile (subway), or at the POP machine (LRT). You wouldn't be charged, but the system would register that you entered the rapid transit system. Take the subway to Zone 1 (downtown), where you would need to swipe your card on exit, where you would be charged the extra $0.50 for crossing over the zone boundary.

For passes, I was thinking three types of passes could be sold:
1) A 'home zone' pass, where it was good for unlimited travel within your zone (for someone who lives and works in downtown, this would be the best option).
2) A 'home zone' pass, with an additional pre-paid option there for if you cross over a zone boundary on occasion.
3) A 'zone to zone' pass, for unlimited travel over X number of zones, increasing in cost the more zones you cross.

The 4th option would be a prepaid card, where you simply load the amount you want on it, and pay using it like a prepaid credit card.


The biggest question with most distance-based systems is how do you monitor bus use across fare boundaries. By making the fare zones large enough that buses can efficiently run within them, this problem is nearly eliminated.
Click to expand...

We want to attract more transit usage, not deter it.
 
gweed123 said:
I don't think this would, especially in Toronto. Unless you're doing long distance trips, the fare rates would be cheaper than under the current systems.
Click to expand...
I thought the whole point of distance-based fares was to provide extra revenue, not reduce revenue while increasing operational compexity.

Next, you are dividing the GTA into seven zones? So I'm assuming something along the lines of: Hamilton/KW/Guelph are Red, Burlington/Oakville/Milton are Orange, Mississuaga is Yellow, Toronto west of Yonge/Vaugh is Green, Toronto east of Yonge/Markham is Blue, Pickering/Ajax is Indigo, and Whitby/Oshawa is Violet.

So it would cost $2.50 to go Union to Exhibition and $5.50 to go Union to Hamilton. Seems like to me that this is reducing the cost of long-distance trips more so than the cost of short-distance trips. I thought the purpose was to make fares reflect operational costs more, not less.

Third, lack of inter-regional transit is a major transportation issue now (you can't go DT to Pearson, because it's the next region). Reducing interconnections isn't going to make the routes more effective.
 
Mapleson said:
I thought the whole point of distance-based fares was to provide extra revenue, not reduce revenue while increasing operational compexity.
Click to expand...

Maintain the same cost for medium distance trips, but reduce the cost for short-distance trips. I would venture to say that if the price of transit dropped for everyone travelling inside of the old City of Toronto, that ridership would likely go up nearly to the point where the revenue from the increased volume would offset the drop in price. Also, because of automation, you wouldn't have people dropping in a couple quarters instead of the full $3 when the ticket booth operator isn't paying attention (or if he's even there). The amount of potential revenue that is lost because of that must be staggering.

I think that for most residents in the old City of Toronto, that the cost of transit for a relatively short trip (5 or 6 subway stops) doesn't justify the $3 expense. This is different than the suburbs, where the biggest issue there is service quality/frequency. Lower the price for Old Toronto, and I think you'd see a pretty significant increase in transit use (this again is assuming that lines like the DRL are built in order to effectively absorb those new riders).

Mapleson said:
Next, you are dividing the GTA into seven zones? So I'm assuming something along the lines of: Hamilton/KW/Guelph are Red, Burlington/Oakville/Milton are Orange, Mississuaga is Yellow, Toronto west of Yonge/Vaugh is Green, Toronto east of Yonge/Markham is Blue, Pickering/Ajax is Indigo, and Whitby/Oshawa is Violet.
Click to expand...

I was thinking zones radiating out from Downtown Toronto. So Zone 1 would be Toronto (from Jane to the 401 to Vic Park); Zone 2 would be Toronto (427 to Steeles to Port Union); Zones 3-6 would be spaced out between the semi-circle created by Burlington, Milton, Georgetown, Newmarket, Stoufville, Oshawa; Zone 7 would be everything west of Hamilton (ie Guelph/K-W), north of Newmarket (ie Barrie), and east of Oshawa.

Mapleson said:
So it would cost $2.50 to go Union to Exhibition and $5.50 to go Union to Hamilton. Seems like to me that this is reducing the cost of long-distance trips more so than the cost of short-distance trips. I thought the purpose was to make fares reflect operational costs more, not less.
Click to expand...

You have the Union to Exhibition part right, yes. Although realistically, that trip wouldn't be done very often.

Mapleson said:
Third, lack of inter-regional transit is a major transportation issue now (you can't go DT to Pearson, because it's the next region). Reducing interconnections isn't going to make the routes more effective.
Click to expand...

The idea is that with a greater number of mass transit routes, that the local bus routes would need to play less of a 'long haul' role. Therefore they could stay within their zone more easily. Obviously this is built on the premise of having a semi-decent mass transit system first.
 
I have a simple proposal.

Flat fares for buses. Fare by distance for subways/GO trains.

This would be easy to pull off. I mean, how does everyone plan to implement zones and tap on/tap off for buses (which make up a large part of the TO transit landscape)? And it would incorporate mode/speed and distance elements into the equation.

If you want to take the Sheppard bus all the way from Meadowvale to Yonge, you should pay less for it. If you want to get off at Don Mills and take the subway, then you'll get charged 10-15 cents per station. There will be a time limit for the base fare (say 2 hrs). This way you can tap on, get off the bus and run errands and tap-on again at no charge. Or if you take a bus, then the subway and then a bus again, you won't get charged the base fare when you tap-on into the station or on the bus as long as you are in the time limit. I would set the base fare to lower than the cash fare today....as low as $1.50. After all, if the per station charge is $0.10, that's quite a lot of dough from STC to Union, on top of the base fare ($2.30 on top of base fare I think). But at the same time, if someone downtown was going from Union to Bloor, $1.5 +$0.1 per station is reasonable enough to encourage them to use the subway and not force them onto the buses and streetcars to save a few bucks (though that remains an option). And the old granny who wants to go shopping at the mall a few blocks away can still afford to take the bus.

GO can be incorporated by treating all GO (bus and train) as higher order transit and imposing different per station/stop fares than other transit services. GO buses should simply build tap-offs at the bus stops. And if you don't tap-off, you just get assessed the max fare for the GO bus route.

I think such a system would be easy to understand for most Torontonians. It would be easy to implement (tap-on/tap-off only at stations and GO bus stops). And it would add an element of choice (time to spare? save money by staying on the bus) and perhaps even give us a chance to reduce the price of local transit.

As for the GTA wide implementation...treat each system as single fare like it is now. ie. Bus based systems just charge the base fare. But wherever higher order transit is built up, put in the per stop/station charge as these systems come in. Inter-system transfers can be made easier simply by assessing a discount like several transit systems do today. Transferring from MT to BT? You get $1 off the BT base fare when you tap-on to a BT bus.
 
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