wopchop
Building Toronto
Huh? Do you honestly think that if we all of a sudden started building concrete block walls instead of drywall stud walls for unit partitions, that condo prices would actually decrease? Are you mental?
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Throw away buildings - CBC
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doug
Active Member
No, I've not stated that anywhere.
No, but thanks for revealing your true self....and indicating that you have a reading comprehension problem.
wopchop
Building Toronto
Well, if I'm too stupid to understand you, o' wise one, why don't you just come out and say what you believe? You certainly seem to be framing your argument in a way that suggests because condo prices were cheaper 10-15 years ago, and since they used concrete block walls for partitions, that a change to concrete block today wouldn't raise prices.
You said that you haven't seen a reduction in condo prices due to a switch to drywall partitions. What I'm saying is that it's possible that this switch lowered prices, but that other factors contributed to raising prices (ie. rising land value, cost of labour, etc.)
You said that you haven't seen a reduction in condo prices due to a switch to drywall partitions. What I'm saying is that it's possible that this switch lowered prices, but that other factors contributed to raising prices (ie. rising land value, cost of labour, etc.)
doug
Active Member
I have, but as you've admitted, you're too stupid to understand.
No, I said I haven't seen a reduction in condo prices...which you claim has occured due to the relaxing of the code. You added the rest so you'd have something to rail against.
wopchop
Building Toronto
I never said that condo prices have reduced in price, overall.
I've said that condo prices have not risen as much as they would, had they continued with concrete block partitions.
Not sure why that is so difficult to understand.
I've said that condo prices have not risen as much as they would, had they continued with concrete block partitions.
Not sure why that is so difficult to understand.
doug
Active Member
You say a lot of things, you prove nothing....
I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding either, unless, like you said, you're stupid....or is it "mental"?
wopchop
Building Toronto
A concrete block wall with drywall on both sides costs more than a metal stud wall with drywall on both sides. Do you deny this?
BobBob
Senior Member
A decent article discussing this:
http://www.torontostandard.com/the-sprawl/the-case-of-the-condom-inium
http://www.torontostandard.com/the-sprawl/the-case-of-the-condom-inium
RC8
Senior Member
Excellent article. It injects some sanity into the nonsense currently being thrown around by the sensationalist media. I am genuinely disgusted by the CBC coverage of the whole thing.
People have come to me since and told me that 'all glass' buildings cannot be trusted 'cause they've never been built before. Such opinions have no place in a city that has all-glass buildings standing in perfect condition since the 70s.
I'd take a glass building over a cardboard house any day. I know which one I expect to fail first.
People have come to me since and told me that 'all glass' buildings cannot be trusted 'cause they've never been built before. Such opinions have no place in a city that has all-glass buildings standing in perfect condition since the 70s.
I'd take a glass building over a cardboard house any day. I know which one I expect to fail first.
neubilder
Banned
A solid block wall would provide excellent sound insulation, particularly at the lower registers, but at significant cost.
Cost in terms of embodied energy in the building and cost to everyone down the line - ultimately the consumer and the environment. If solid block was the best solution then no problem, but it's not. The added mass necessitates tons of extra concrete and steel reinforcement, not just in the wall itself but in the entire structure. Block walls add massive loads which need to be dealt with both in terms of vertical and shear (horizontal) loading.
Block walls, while sometimes necessary, are an unsustainable overkill solution to a problem that can be solved easily through more efficient use of materials. The wall system that wopchop describes is just that design, though I would add that double layers of 'type x' fire-rated drywall be applied to both sides.
(2 x type-x drywall) + (two parallel 3.5" alternating steel stud walls w/ fire&sound insulation woven between) + (2 x type-x drywall)
The alternating studs reduces the net wall thickness while still acoustically decoupling the two faces. A single 6" stud wall with furring channel achieves a fraction of this result.
2 x 2 layers of drywall is essential for mass and also makes it easier to apply gobs of acoustical sealant at the tops and bottoms of the wall between the sandwiched layers of drywall. This is particularly helpful with exposed concrete ceilings and/or floors.
You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a block wall and the system I described in terms of maintaining good neighbourly relations (ie. hardly knowing your reighbours exist).
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neubilder
Banned
Construction costs, and thus condo prices, would rise considerably (and needlessly) if block walls (CMU) were mandated. Unfortunately NBcode is primarily concerned with fire safely and not comfort levels, and 3 layers of type x I believe is all that's required. There is no provision for double-wall construction.
Most buyers' eyes would glaze over if you started to describe the relative merits of wall systems in a sales pitch.
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