The University line

[kkgg7]

If the line had been built along Spadina and it had become an institutional zone similar to what's now on University (somewhat unlikely given the employment related to Queen's Park, but possible), then sure. Chinatown is busy, but retail and residential just don't generate the same number of trips as big employers. The crowds of GO commuters taking the University line from union in the morning are mostly going to work at locations from Osgoode to St. George. I think people underestimate just how many people work in the "institutional zone" (UofT, hospitals, Queen's Park, MaRS, etc.). There are thousands of jobs in that area, which straddles the University line.



Those hospitals are HUGE employers, those office towers along University are also full of people, and the AGO and OCADU are just around the corner. Do you honestly think more people are getting off the subway to take the streetcar to grab a bowl of pho? Maybe on the weekend.

I agree with what you said about the importance of University Ave as a major avenue of employment. What I don't understand is why those employees can't walk for 5 minutes after exiting at a station on Yonge.

AGO is the same distance from University and Spadina by the way. OCAD is 300 meters farther from Spadina. You talk as if if the subway is not on University, people have no way of getting there...

 

[canarob]

I agree with what you said about the importance of University Ave as a major avenue of employment. What I don't understand is why those employees can't walk for 5 minutes after exiting at a station on Yonge.

AGO is the same distance from University and Spadina by the way. OCAD is 300 meters farther from Spadina. You talk as if if the subway is not on University, people have no way of getting there...

I don't mind walking 5 minutes to the subway, but many people do. I think the popularity of the PATH demonstrates that to some extent.

 

[officedweller]

He has a time machine and will go back and lobby for a different allignment.

 

[kkgg7]

Seriously, what is the point of this thread?

what's the point of you commenting on something you think is pointless? What's the point of commenting on the Trump Tower, about Four Seasons, how many of us will ever step into those buildings, not to mention own a unit in them?

people talk about wild imaginations on this forum everyday, as if they have the power to make policies, as long as it interests them. if you don't like it, just skip it.

 

[kkgg7]

He has a time machine and will go back and lobby for a different allignment.

then i guess all the members here have any influence on what subways get built or how buildings should be designed?
if you think others' topic is worthless, just move on.

 

[officedweller]

BTW - the capacity issue would be why some cities like NYC have single lines with 4 tracks.

The parallel Yonge Line and University Line were intended to serve the same purpose - accommodating capacity - so arguably planning to have two parallel lines provides better coverage than 4-tracking the Yonge Line.

That's really a very interesting design. I don't remember any other city has subways running like that.
However, that planning was still based on the wrong assumption that everyone eventually goes and only goes to downtown Yonge. other subway lines only serve the purpose of bringing people to lower Yonge st. Maybe at that time it was a valid assumption, but apparent, it lacks vision about how a city might expand and evolve., which leaves us an awkward situation: even the vibrant King West, Queen West as well as Chinatown are not within a short walking distance to a subway station.

that being said, it is still a good idea to extend the Spadina line southward below Bloor, and make 4 stops at College, Dundas, Queen, King, and merge with the DRL at Lower Spadina Station.

Ultimately it boils down to politics -

Read here - The Queen St Subway lost out to the Spadina Subway.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5104.shtml

The Queen Subway’s Last Gasps

After the construction of the Bloor-Danforth subway, a Queen line remained the City of Toronto’s choice as the next rapid transit priority. Maps in the late 1960s show a proposed line running south from Greenwood or Donlands station to Queen Street and west along Queen to Roncesvalles. At this time, the Queen subway proposal competed with a proposal to run a subway line up the median of the Spadina Expressway. This option was favoured by most of the suburban municipalities, especially the village of Forest Hill and the townships of York and North York. Again, the matter was put off by extending another of the established subway lines, in this case Yonge north of Eglinton. The debate raged on while construction crews brought that subway from Eglinton to Finch.

Proponents of Spadina criticized the Queen subway for providing rapid transit to an area that was already effectively served by the Bloor subway. Spadina, these supporters argued, brought rapid transit closer to underserviced north-western Metro. Proponents of the Queen line criticized that the Spadina line was unlikely to attract as many riders, separated from stores, offices and apartments by expressway lanes on either side.

The issue was settled after 1967. In that year, the Ontario government completed a review of Metropolitan Toronto and ordered that it be restructured. The thirteen member municipalities were consolidated down to six, with Long Branch, Mimico and New Toronto merging into Etobicoke, Weston merging into York, Leaside merging into East York and Swansea and Forest Hill merging into Toronto.

The restructuring also redistributed Metro Council seats to each member municipality according to their percentage of population within Metro. The suburban municipalities had grown considerably since 1954, such that their combined populations were larger than that of the City of Toronto. As a result, the suburban municipalities received a majority of Metro Council seats. The Spadina subway was quickly chosen as the TTC’s next priority for subway construction. The Queen line was left to languish. Queen remained on the books as the priority that would follow after Spadina’s opening. In the late 1960s, an opening date for Queen was set at 1980, at which time the remainder of Toronto’s streetcar network would be abandoned.

 

[kkgg7]

BTW - the capacity issue would be why some cities like NYC have single lines with 4 tracks.

The parallel Yonge Line and University Line were intended to serve the same purpose - accommodating capacity - so arguably planning to have two parallel lines provides better coverage than 4-tracking the Yonge Line.



Ultimately it boils down to politics -

Read here - The Queen St Subway lost out to the Spadina Subway.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5104.shtml

thanks for the info. as usual, it is always about the city vs the suburbs.
one thing that confuses me is, if those folks like the suburbs so much, why don't they just live, work and entertain in the suburbs, rather than insisting on rapid transit bringing them to the city, which they don't like? so basically I need the city for everything, but i just don't want to live there? sounds exactly like how sprawl originated.

 

[nfitz]

thanks for the info. as usual, it is always about the city vs the suburbs.
one thing that confuses me is, if those folks like the suburbs so much, why don't they just live, work and entertain in the suburbs, rather than insisting on rapid transit bringing them to the city, which they don't like? so basically I need the city for everything, but i just don't want to live there? sounds exactly like how sprawl originated.

It's only about the city vs the suburbs, if one chooses to make it about that - and I don't know why you are doing that.

Personally, I live near downtown. I want the Spadina extension to Highway 7, so I can leave my car at home when I have to go up there on business. I've been able to do more of this with the transitway improving transport to York, and with the subway connections to Highway 7, I'll have to drive even less.

 

[11th]

thanks for the info. as usual, it is always about the city vs the suburbs.
one thing that confuses me is, if those folks like the suburbs so much, why don't they just live, work and entertain in the suburbs, rather than insisting on rapid transit bringing them to the city, which they don't like? so basically I need the city for everything, but i just don't want to live there? sounds exactly like how sprawl originated.

In the case of North York, it could, and it tried (look at those Wittington Place proposals - they even had an Olympic-sized sporting facility planned into it), but the recession in the early 90s brought an end to that. By the time to market turned around, it's been amalgamated.

 

[Palma]

It's only about the city vs the suburbs, if one chooses to make it about that - and I don't know why you are doing that.
.

Because it comes down to that - city vs suburbs. You may have a need to travel north and want the subway to reach Hwy 7 (which is ridiculous by the way), a subway reaching a hwy. Oh, I forgot – the Spadina line which was built along an expressway which is ridiculous in itself - is going all the way north and reaching the hwy. It’s true, that subways should not be built to bring people from the suburbs to work in the city. That’s what Go is for and the corresponding higher prices. There is a high unemployment in Toronto and there are plenty of people to take those jobs if people in the 905 choose not to come. Its true, that they complain about the city yet want the jobs the city has.

 

[nfitz]

Because it comes down to that - city vs suburbs. You may have a need to travel north and want the subway to reach Hwy 7 (which is ridiculous by the way), a subway reaching a hwy.

What's the big deal with it reaching a former provincial highway? Yonge Street was a provincial highway when a subway was built underneath it.

Looking at Places to Grow, the growth in Region of York will be huge. Good transportation links are essential.

 

[11th]

There is a high unemployment in Toronto and there are plenty of people to take those jobs if people in the 905 choose not to come. Its true, that they complain about the city yet want the jobs the city has.

The jobs are there for everyone to apply. You can say Toronto lacks the types of jobs for some of the unemployed living within the city, but to think the unemployment situation will somehow diminish for the city just because the 905s decide leave their jobs, you must be joking.

 

[Mulder]

I guess one could argue that if the subway line got built on Spadina south of Bloor, We might have seen the need for that East - West line on Queen arrive earlier and actually get built. And Chinatown would have been pushed futher west as business and developers wanted to be on the subway line. Interesting to think about at least.

 

[Palma]

The jobs are there for everyone to apply. You can say Toronto lacks the types of jobs for some of the unemployed living within the city, but to think the unemployment situation will somehow diminish for the city just because the 905s decide leave their jobs, you must be joking.

I am not joking. But if the jobs are already held by people living in the 905 how can the unemployed applied for these jobs?. Companies would need to let people go and then jobs would open up in order for people in Toronto to apply.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Really

I am not joking. But if the jobs are already held by people living in the 905 how can the unemployed applied for these jobs?. Companies would need to let people go and then jobs would open up in order for people in Toronto to apply.

Should people who live in Scarborough really work downtown? Don't they take jobs away from people who live downtown?