Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
If Toronto became a province, I would hope we would bring the GTA, Hamilton and even Niagara and Kitchener-Waterloo along with us.
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The province of Toronto?
- Thread starter afransen
- Start date
If Toronto became a province, I would hope we would bring the GTA, Hamilton and even Niagara and Kitchener-Waterloo along with us.
TOareaFan
Superstar
What would be in it for the other parts of the GTA? (honest question)......of course if it was just the Province of 416 it would be the only province in the country without a full international airport and would likely lead to massive expansion at YTZ
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
What would be in it for the other parts of the GTA? (honest question)......of course if it was just the Province of 416 it would be the only province in the country without a full international airport and would likely lead to massive expansion at YTZ
The reason why we would want Toronto to separate and form its own province is presumably because it gives us the liberty to direct all the taxes and revenues our (mega-)city generates towards our infrastructure, education and social services we need in order to build on our prosperity and success.
Our suburbs also generate a large percent of the province's income and also have a need and desire to invest in its local infrastructure. I wouldn't mind sharing Toronto's wealth with Hamilton, Mississauga or Waterloo because it is a good return on our investment, and conversely, having some of their revenue directed towards Toronto is a good thing too because a booming Toronto is a booming GTA. Further, the bigger we as a province are, the more political clout we have collectively to bargain at the federal level.
Ontario (and Canada) is not the rural country it was when the nation was confederated, we are now an exceedingly urban nation and our cities are the key to our nation's future. The current model is ineffective for investing in our cities and therefore in our future.
I know Mayor Nenshi of Calgary desires to get his city (and Edmonton's) greater access to available revenue tools, but I don't see that as a viable approach because the provincial government would never willingly give up its power. I think the most viable path for Toronto to attain those revenue tools would be through a referendum on accession.
(I am arguing one side, it is fun to think about but should a referendum on the issue actually come into being I think I would be much more conflicted on which way I vote.)
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
What would be in it for the other parts of the GTA? (honest question)......of course if it was just the Province of 416 it would be the only province in the country without a full international airport and would likely lead to massive expansion at YTZ
Perfect! You've changed my mind!
jayme2016
Active Member
I think if Toronto/Hamilton etc are made there own you would then see the feds make Ottawa-Gatineau and area a district would world mean very little of Ontario would be left.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
The reduced population Ontario would still be the third largest province by population (after Quebec and Toronto) and the second or third largest in area (depending on land area vs total area).
howl
Active Member
I think it's more likely that Eastern, Northern and/or Southwestern Ontario would initiate a separation from Central Ontario, rather than Toronto initiating a separation from the rest of Ontario.
The issue is representation in the Ontario Legislature. Ontario currently has about 13.6 million people in it with the GTA being home to about 47% of that population (6.5 million), which means the rest of the Province can currently out-vote Toronto (the GTA as 44% of the ridings, the rest of the Province 56%). But, by 2041 the Ontario Ministry of Finance predicts Ontario will have 17.7 million people and 9.4 million of them will live in the GTA, that's 53% and one would hope ridings would be reconfigured to reflect this - giving the GTA the upper hand in the legislature.
The issue is representation in the Ontario Legislature. Ontario currently has about 13.6 million people in it with the GTA being home to about 47% of that population (6.5 million), which means the rest of the Province can currently out-vote Toronto (the GTA as 44% of the ridings, the rest of the Province 56%). But, by 2041 the Ontario Ministry of Finance predicts Ontario will have 17.7 million people and 9.4 million of them will live in the GTA, that's 53% and one would hope ridings would be reconfigured to reflect this - giving the GTA the upper hand in the legislature.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Where would the GTA prefer to go - with Toronto or with Ontario. No matter how much of the GTA goes with Toronto, the new Province would be dominated by the current City of Toronto. I would suspect that Mississauga, Brampton and Vaughan would prefer to be big players in Ontario than small players in Toronto.
howl
Active Member
That depends on two things: 1. What barriers the Provincial border puts up; and 2. What the balance of taxes is.
Provincial barriers would be hard to predict, but someone might be able to calculate the net taxes the City pays/receives and compare it to the taxes the rest of the GTA pays/receives, and then the rest of Ontario. That might provide some telling results. I expect, when all types of taxes are added up (sales, income, business) and all of the costs for running those areas are deducted, the City will have a net surplus, the rest of the GTA will have a net deficit, and the rest of Ontario will be almost neutral.
Provincial barriers would be hard to predict, but someone might be able to calculate the net taxes the City pays/receives and compare it to the taxes the rest of the GTA pays/receives, and then the rest of Ontario. That might provide some telling results. I expect, when all types of taxes are added up (sales, income, business) and all of the costs for running those areas are deducted, the City will have a net surplus, the rest of the GTA will have a net deficit, and the rest of Ontario will be almost neutral.
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jayme2016
Active Member
Depends if you have the whole Golden area go with Toronto and say most of Eastern Ontario go with Ottawa-Gatineau not much is left.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
How much opposition from the rest of the country would there be if Ottawa is made the new capital of Ontario? (In the case Toronto secedes)
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Why would they care? I don't see how it would have an effect on national policymaking.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
That's kinda what I was getting at. Historically when the country largely consisted of two main population centres in Ontario and Quebec there would probably be some bitterness in Quebec towards having the Ontario government so close to the Federal government. Canada today is rather different though and I doubt Western Canada would care much.
Greg Banks
Active Member
What would be in it for the other parts of the GTA? (honest question)......of course if it was just the Province of 416 it would be the only province in the country without a full international airport and would likely lead to massive expansion at YTZ
Massive expansion of YTZ? The whole of the Toronto Islands would become YTZ...No more Islanders or amenities that Torontonians have become used to...Just 2 east/west international runways would be feasible plus infrastructure to support...You would expect to see a bridge link at the east end turning Cherry, Unwin, Commissioners and Leslie into major arterials...A complete rethink would be necessary by Waterfront Toronto for developing the Portlands...It would be more advantageous to expand and develop YZD (Downsview) at least there is transport infrastructure there to start with...
ksun
Senior Member
Toronto/Hamilton has 3.3M. Ottawa has 0.9M. The total is only 4.2M, still leaves 9M in the rest of Ontario.
If you are taking about metro area, then it is 6.6+1.3 = 7.9M, leaving 5M in the rest of Ontario.
Even with both metro Toronto/Hamilton/Ottawa gone, Ontario will still be larger than any provinces except Quebec and Toronto. With 5M people, it will still be larger than BC and AB, and as populous as 5 smaller provinces (MB, SK, NS, NB, PEI) combined.