The Future of Bombardier

[Admiral Beez]

The Q400 and CRJ was, for a long time, the aerospace side's bread and butter. They neglected them so much and failed to make modest improvements to both programs to increase the economics of flying both types of aircraft, and instead focuses all of their attention on the C Series

Because they wanted to play with the big boys.

Sure they changed the name from Dash 8 to Q400, but it's still a design that first flew in the early 1980s.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Airbus announced it will partner with Bombardier to produce the C Series jets by acquiring a 50.01% stake in CSeries Aircraft Limited Partnership (CSALP) the joint venture between Bombardier and Investissement Québec. Under the new terms Airbus will own 50.01%, Bombardier 31% and Investissement Québec 19%

 

[Amare]

Because they wanted to play with the big boys.

And just look how far that got them. So they outright admitted tonight that their venture into the C Series was a failure (Airbus now has control in the program), and they failed in addressing the needs of the Q400 and CRJ. While all this was going on, they funneled money out of the Transportation side to help fund the Aerospace side.

I'll be honest here, this company deserves to go bankrupt since all of these problems were brought on by themselves and no one else.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

And just look how far that got them. So they outright admitted tonight that their venture into the C Series was a failure (Airbus now has control in the program), and they failed in addressing the needs of the Q400 and CRJ. While all this was going on, they funneled money out of the Transportation side to help fund the Aerospace side.

I'll be honest here, this company deserves to go bankrupt since all of these problems were brought on by themselves and no one else.

Their venture into the CSeries wasn't a failure. The venture brought in Airbus, Airbus' supply chain and a second assembly line in the US. Meaning essentially that the US duties cannot be enforced on the Delta order.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Okay, just how many ways can the Bombardier company be carved about? So, Airbus can buy a controlling share of just one program, but not of BBR Aerospace as a whole? What are they running a half dozen listed shadow companies so that whenever they need some cash they just sell another sliver?

And now Quebec and Canadian taxpayers are funding Airbus? How is that worse than Canadians selling to Boeing, Lockheed-Martin or Embraer?

 

[TOareaFan]

Okay, just how many ways can the Bombardier company be carved about? So, Airbus can buy a controlling share of just one program, but not of BBR Aerospace as a whole? What are they running a half dozen listed shadow companies so that whenever they need some cash they just sell another sliver?

I wouldn’t call them shadow companies.....and this is the same one they created to get the government investment.....airbus just bought a controlling stake in already existing company/partnership.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Does this mean that Bombarier is our of the aerospace industry as a potential major player? I know that they had some larger aircraft in the pipeline, that would directly compete with some larger Boeing products. Will those not materialize anymore?

Not really in the loop when it comes to aerospace.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Does this mean that Bombarier is our of the aerospace industry as a potential major player? I know that they had some larger aircraft in the pipeline, that would directly compete with some larger Boeing products. Will those not materialize anymore?

Not really in the loop when it comes to aerospace.

I'd have to think the Q400 unit will be sold off, along with the Downsview plant.

 

[Amare]

Bombardier and Airbus had a press conference a few hours ago and here are some key points:

-In the CSeries program, Bombardier owns 31%, Quebec 19%, and Airbus 51%

-Airbus has the option in 7 ½ years to purchase the remaining stake from Bombardier

-The Quebec government will remain a shareholder in the program until 2023 instead of the previous timeframe of 2021

-The program's value is now worth approx. $2 billion after the acquisition compared to $1 billion when the Quebec govt bought its portion according to Bombardier

-Jobs in the CSeries program currently in Quebec will remain in Quebec until 2041

-Bombardier admitted they will earn a smaller portion of profits from an overall larger cut of revenues

Their venture into the CSeries wasn't a failure. The venture brought in Airbus, Airbus' supply chain and a second assembly line in the US. Meaning essentially that the US duties cannot be enforced on the Delta order.

We might have a different description of what a failure is. In my opinion, a project/program can be deemed a failure when it continuously bleeds money and no profit has been made whatsoever and has to be bailed out by another group.

Does this mean that Bombarier is our of the aerospace industry as a potential major player? I know that they had some larger aircraft in the pipeline, that would directly compete with some larger Boeing products. Will those not materialize anymore?

Not really in the loop when it comes to aerospace.

Well if Bombardier sells of both the Q400 series and CRJ, depending on the stake sold, that would essentially take them out from being a major player in the industry since it would only leave the business jets in their Aerospace portfolio. It would be a sad fall from grace from a company that showed a lot of promise in the early 2000's.

 

[crs1026]

The question would be, who retains what IP and the development people, and what does this mean for future airplane development. Does Bombardier have the ability and the legal right to develop new plane models, or are we at a point where Airbus will support production of these models for so long as they are marketable, but Bombardier - and therefore Canada - is therefore out of the aviation game?

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

The question would be, who retains what IP and the development people, and what does this mean for future airplane development. Does Bombardier have the ability and the legal right to develop new plane models, or are we at a point where Airbus will support production of these models for so long as they are marketable, but Bombardier - and therefore Canada - is therefore out of the aviation game?

- Paul

IMO, the C-Series is the last aircraft to be designed by Bombardier. Heck, isn’t it the first, since everything else came from acquisitions (Canadair, De Havilland, Lear, etc)? So, with little history of designing aircraft in-house, and having just sold off their one in-house design to Johnny Foreigner, well, I’d say they’re done.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The question would be, who retains what IP and the development people, and what does this mean for future airplane development. Does Bombardier have the ability and the legal right to develop new plane models, or are we at a point where Airbus will support production of these models for so long as they are marketable, but Bombardier - and therefore Canada - is therefore out of the aviation game?

- Paul

From what I understand, Airbus has eaten the debt of th C-Series program, in exchange for 51% of the profits. Bombardier will retain 31%. Hopefully they can use this to fund development of new aerospace products - I really would like to see BBD become a bigger player in the industry.

 

[Admiral Beez]

From what I understand, Airbus has eaten the debt of th C-Series program, in exchange for 51% of the profits. Bombardier will retain 31%. Hopefully they can use this to fund development of new aerospace products - I really would like to see BBD become a bigger player in the industry.

The one Bombardier family business I’ve always respected is BRP, smartly broken off from the trains and planes biz years ago. No need for massive government subsidies, just make innovative and exciting recreational vehicles. That’s where the success can be found.

http://www.brp.com/en/2018-new-models.html

 

[MisterF]

The one Bombardier family business I’ve always respected is BRP, smartly broken off from the trains and planes biz years ago. No need for massive government subsidies, just make innovative and exciting recreational vehicles. That’s where the success can be found.

http://www.brp.com/en/2018-new-models.html

A business like that doesn't need government subsidies to stay competitive. Aerospace does, and every aerospace player is subsidized in one way or another, including Boeing. The flip side is that the jet and train business is much bigger than BRP and has a bigger economic impact. It's more important to the Canadian economy.

It's a shame that Bombardier couldn't get this program into full gear by itself and that the CSeries is now controlled by a foreign company. Hopefully Bombardier can continue as a player in the business with its turboprop and regional jet products. But the real loser here is Boeing. By attempting to bully the CSeries into submission they pushed it into the arms of its biggest competitor and made it a much bigger threat than it was before. Now instead of subsidies from Canada, they face subsidies from Canada and all of western Europe.

 

[jje1000]

From what I understand, Airbus has eaten the debt of th C-Series program, in exchange for 51% of the profits. Bombardier will retain 31%. Hopefully they can use this to fund development of new aerospace products - I really would like to see BBD become a bigger player in the industry.

The partnership is expected to result in significant CSeries production costs savings by leveraging Airbus’s global supply chain expertise, but the company(Airbus) won’t be paying any money for the acquired stake or absorb Bombardier’s large debt.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/10/16/bombardier-looking-to-sell-q400-business-report.html