Taxis and ride-sharing in Toronto

[LNahid2000]

Most of these UberX guys probably don't file taxes for this income.

And most cabbies probably don't declare their tips when filing taxes. I don't see that as any different.

 

[TrickyRicky]

As an investor I'm fascinating by the Uber model and find it academically interesting; however, from a social perspective you have to admit that (and I'm no anti-corporate advocate as a business owner and investor) that they are a fascinating breed of corporate evil. They are so good at what they do that they even leverage their costumer base as a political weapon. The average Joe on the street is actually attacking the cab monopoly and not Uber which fascinates me. I need to think about this more. I find parallels between the corporate strategy here and say the political strategy of Rob Ford or Donald Trump.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

As an investor I'm fascinating by the Uber model and find it academically interesting; however, from a social perspective you have to admit that (and I'm no anti-corporate advocate as a business owner and investor) that they are a fascinating breed of corporate evil. They are so good at what they do that they even leverage their costumer base as a political weapon. The average Joe on the street is actually attacking the cab monopoly and not Uber which fascinates me. I need to think about this more. I find parallels between the corporate strategy here and say the political strategy of Rob Ford or Donald Trump.

Weird. I'd say the exact opposite - that they're corporate Robin Hoods fighting an entrenched monopoly, which I see as evil. I guess you're comparing government to an entrenched monopoly? I guess if you think of taxis as an essential service? Can't see it.

 

[narduch]

Weird. I'd say the exact opposite - that they're corporate Robin Hoods fighting an entrenched monopoly, which I see as evil. I guess you're comparing government to an entrenched monopoly? I guess if you think of taxis as an essential service? Can't see it.

Maybe if Robin Hood stole from the slightly less rich and just piled the money in offshore accounts for the benefit of a handful of tech investors who are making out like bandits, than that might be a good analogy.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Maybe if Robin Hood stole from the slightly less rich and just piled the money in offshore accounts for the benefit of a handful of tech investors who are making out like bandits, than that might be a good analogy.

Seriously, you need to let the tax issue go, or buy some SBUX and GOOG shares. If you want to get really into taxable vs. non-taxable transactions, buy YHOO and hopefully you'll get a shot at screwing the IRS out of billions.

Why could you care less about a private US company's tax practices, as long as you get a superior service -- i.e. friendly, cleaner, cheaper car rides from place to place in Toronto? Are you also angry about paying via Square for your reflexologist or chiropractor when they're not hosed by Moneris and you get to pay cheaply and easily, with an e-mailed receipt? Does it drive you batty to get car insurance cheaper from a website than paying more through an agent?

I don't get the angst about taxis having to give up their monopoly -- although their unbelievably obtuse protest probably turned a huge number of supporters against them.

 

[narduch]

Seriously, you need to let the tax issue go, or buy some SBUX and GOOG shares. If you want to get really into taxable vs. non-taxable transactions, buy YHOO and hopefully you'll get a shot at screwing the IRS out of billions.

Why could you care less about a private US company's tax practices, as long as you get a superior service -- i.e. friendly, cleaner, cheaper car rides from place to place in Toronto? Are you also angry about paying via Square for your reflexologist or chiropractor when they're not hosed by Moneris and you get to pay cheaply and easily, with an e-mailed receipt? Does it drive you batty to get car insurance cheaper from a website than paying more through an agent?

I don't get the angst about taxis having to give up their monopoly -- although their unbelievably obtuse protest probably turned a huge number of supporters against them.

I'm no fan of the taxi industry, I hope they break up that monopoly and destroy the current system that inflates the value of the licenses.

That still doesn't make what Uber is doing right. Services like it degrade our tax base, putting an increased burden on the average person to maintain services and infrastructure. Just so a bunch of millenials and yuppies can brag about using an app and service that is cooler than the existing dirty taxi system.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Seriously, you need to let the tax issue go, or buy some SBUX and GOOG shares. If you want to get really into taxable vs. non-taxable transactions, buy YHOO and hopefully you'll get a shot at screwing the IRS out of billions.

Why could you care less about a private US company's tax practices, as long as you get a superior service -- i.e. friendly, cleaner, cheaper car rides from place to place in Toronto? Are you also angry about paying via Square for your reflexologist or chiropractor when they're not hosed by Moneris and you get to pay cheaply and easily, with an e-mailed receipt? Does it drive you batty to get car insurance cheaper from a website than paying more through an agent?

I don't get the angst about taxis having to give up their monopoly -- although their unbelievably obtuse protest probably turned a huge number of supporters against them.

Have you ever looked at Square's model? It's actually MORE expensive than Moneris etc on a total cost basis. The difference is that Moneris has these flat fees (terminal rental etc) that get averaged out as the number of transactions increase. Square's advantage is for the retailer that might do a few transactions a month as the flat fees become an onerous cost.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Have you ever looked at Square's model? It's actually MORE expensive than Moneris etc on a total cost basis. The difference is that Moneris has these flat fees (terminal rental etc) that get averaged out as the number of transactions increase. Square's advantage is for the retailer that might do a few transactions a month as the flat fees become an onerous cost.

My using the specific example of a reflexologist was not random. A friend of mine related her delight over Square and showed us how she uses it with customers while down here on vacation a couple of weeks ago from Toronto. Very cool techonology. In contrast, my wife used to have a shop on Queen East, and Moneris was a constant source of aggravation -- e.g., if you uploaded your transactions on a daily basis, you got your money in the bank, but ran through the 20 free transfers every month. Therefore, your choice was really expensive credit card transactions or wait until the end of the week or month to get the cash in hand -- very tough choices for a small, independent retailer with bills to pay.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I'm no fan of the taxi industry, I hope they break up that monopoly and destroy the current system that inflates the value of the licenses.

That still doesn't make what Uber is doing right. Services like it degrade our tax base, putting an increased burden on the average person to maintain services and infrastructure. Just so a bunch of millenials and yuppies can brag about using an app and service that is cooler than the existing dirty taxi system.

We'll agree to disagree. If more people are taking Uber and paying HST to do so, the drivers are paying fuel taxes when they fill up, and the drivers are paying their fees for car licenses, I'd say the properly targeted taxes are being paid.

I tend to take public transit rather than taxis or Uber or airport limos, but I'd say that Uber's least benefit is the 'cool' factor. From all reports, Uber is a markedly better car ride service than taxis.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

My using the specific example of a reflexologist was not random. A friend of mine related her delight over Square and showed us how she uses it with customers while down here on vacation a couple of weeks ago from Toronto. Very cool techonology. In contrast, my wife used to have a shop on Queen East, and Moneris was a constant source of aggravation -- e.g., if you uploaded your transactions on a daily basis, you got your money in the bank, but ran through the 20 free transfers every month. Therefore, your choice was really expensive credit card transactions or wait until the end of the week or month to get the cash in hand -- very tough choices for a small, independent retailer with bills to pay.

Isn't that what I said? I don't know where the cut off is in terms of number of transactions per month. However Square is designed for small retailers who might a few transactions a week/month. As the number of transactions increase Square becomes more expensive and Moneris more economical.

 

[salsa]

Police chief Mark Saunders will speak to the media after the meeting with taxi industry, approximately 12:30 pm at the earliest.

 

[flonicky]

As an investor I'm fascinating by the Uber model and find it academically interesting; however, from a social perspective you have to admit that (and I'm no anti-corporate advocate as a business owner and investor) that they are a fascinating breed of corporate evil. .

If you look at other calcified industries that have been crowdsourced by technology, it follows a familiar pattern:

The original industry is vulnerable to crowdsourcing because it's become inflexible and complacent. Users (those provided and using the service) become infatuated with ease and efficiency of the crowdsourced service and enjoy the sense of 'sticking it to' the old industry.

It runs on optimism for a while.

As time goes on, the crowdsourced company finds sneaky ways to suck more and more money from those providing the service. Because the people doing the actual work are not organized in any way, they can either submit or drop out. There are plenty of bottom feeders who will sustain the service, but overall, quality will eventually decline and nobody doing the work will be making a living wage.

Finally, the owner of the company will donate a bunch of money to charity. The End.

 

[Electrify]

Re: taxes.

When I worked as a courier (aka: independent contractor), I paid a few thousand dollars each spring for the HST I collected as well as income tax. Though I kept track of my receipts and spending, it only goes so far. So yes, Uber drivers should be paying taxes, lest they want to get on the bad side of CRA.

 

[gabe]

ha ha ha!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

If you look at other calcified industries that have been crowdsourced by technology, it follows a familiar pattern:

The original industry is vulnerable to crowdsourcing because it's become inflexible and complacent. Users (those provided and using the service) become infatuated with ease and efficiency of the crowdsourced service and enjoy the sense of 'sticking it to' the old industry.

It runs on optimism for a while.

As time goes on, the crowdsourced company finds sneaky ways to suck more and more money from those providing the service. Because the people doing the actual work are not organized in any way, they can either submit or drop out. There are plenty of bottom feeders who will sustain the service, but overall, quality will eventually decline and nobody doing the work will be making a living wage.

Finally, the owner of the company will donate a bunch of money to charity. The End.

I'm not certain what your definition of 'crowdsourced' is in this parable.