Taxis and ride-sharing in Toronto

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Maybe he should take a look at the video

If that's what polite is, it would certainly explain some cab experiences...

AoD

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I agree - the plates were never meant to be sold like a commodity.

If the market tanks and my condo loses 30% of its value, will the city reimburse me? Nobody should be in the business of subsidizing poor investment decisions. I hate welfare of any kind (corporate or personal).

The taxi licensing cartels, much like the milk and egg licensing cartels, leave themselves open to abuse, license trading, etc. The whole system reeked, and the paper thin excuse of 'safety' was blown away by Uber. What I don't get is why the taxi drivers, who claim to be paying way too much to rent the license from the Becks of the world, don't just start working for Uber. Unless you own the plate, doesn't Uber seem like a better deal as a driver?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

He's my issue with Uber. It markets itself as a 'ride sharing' service, i.e. I'm going from here to there, so are you, so why not give me a lift and I'll pay for part or all of the gas for the trip. When in practice it is much closer to a full fledged taxi service, even in the agreement between the driver and passenger.

Their lawyers play both sides of the coin whenever it suits them. Uber is a taxi company (if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck) so uber should follow the laws and regulations related to taxis in Toronto. "Oh no no we are not taxis we are a ride sharing service connecting different people together" Who is responsible for driver testing, vehicle maintenance, certification? "Well uber drivers are independant drivers. we don't control them, since we aren't a taxi company. Not our responsibility". Yet as soon as a driver takes a fare uber takes it's cut like a typical taxi company.

Are there flaws in the current taxi system? Sure. Is Uber some benevolent company looking out for the best interests of drivers and passengers? Naw man they are just out looking to make a buck like everyone else and bypass rules and regulations while they do it.

 

[ShonTron]

Exactly. Before Uber co-opted the term "ride sharing" I always though of it as something like organizing drives like Toronto-Ottawa to connect people looking for passengers to share the costs, with people needing rides.

There was a case for AirBnB being part of a "sharing economy" if it was connecting budget travellers with people with a spare bedroom or an empty apartment while the occupant was away (which is how it started, and is still an option), but it's largely turned into a covert hotel replacement in many places where investor-owned condos have become full-time AirBnB rentals.

 

[picard102]

Their lawyers play both sides of the coin whenever it suits them.

As does any business.

"Well uber drivers are independant drivers. we don't control them, since we aren't a taxi company. Not our responsibility".

Taxi companies don't seem to control their own drivers either, so at least on that point they are like a traditional taxi brokerage. The main difference being Uber has some modicum of quality assurance and boots anyone not up to snuff. Beck is happy to let people with criminal records drive for them, even after assaulting passengers.

Is Uber some benevolent company looking out for the best interests of drivers and passengers? Naw man they are just out looking to make a buck like everyone else and bypass rules and regulations while they do it.

Who's arguing that they are benevolent or looking out for consumers?
No one is defending Uber because they are a good corporate citizens, they are on Uber's side because they provide a better service for consumers, period.
Taxi drivers have set the bar for service so low, that people are happy to choose something, anything, that isn't a taxi cab.

 

[narduch]

He's my issue with Uber. It markets itself as a 'ride sharing' service, i.e. I'm going from here to there, so are you, so why not give me a lift and I'll pay for part or all of the gas for the trip. When in practice it is much closer to a full fledged taxi service, even in the agreement between the driver and passenger.

Their lawyers play both sides of the coin whenever it suits them. Uber is a taxi company (if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck) so uber should follow the laws and regulations related to taxis in Toronto. "Oh no no we are not taxis we are a ride sharing service connecting different people together" Who is responsible for driver testing, vehicle maintenance, certification? "Well uber drivers are independant drivers. we don't control them, since we aren't a taxi company. Not our responsibility". Yet as soon as a driver takes a fare uber takes it's cut like a typical taxi company.

Are there flaws in the current taxi system? Sure. Is Uber some benevolent company looking out for the best interests of drivers and passengers? Naw man they are just out looking to make a buck like everyone else and bypass rules and regulations while they do it.

Great post.

There's also the issue of taxation.

Its kind of funny that there is a lot of talk on this forum on how to spend government money, yet people will support a company that adds nothing to our tax base (or makes it worse).

The way Uber handles taxes is borderline criminal. My guess is that is how it will eventually be properly regulated.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Great post.

There's also the issue of taxation.

Its kind of funny that there is a lot of talk on this forum on how to spend government money, yet people will support a company that adds nothing to our tax base (or makes it worse).

The way Uber handles taxes is borderline criminal. My guess is that is how it will eventually be properly regulated.

How do they handle taxes? Why is it 'borderline criminal'?

 

[picard102]

The way Uber handles taxes is borderline criminal. My guess is that is how it will eventually be properly regulated.

How is how they handle, taxes any different than any other internet based foreign company?
Uber drivers are independent and it's up to them to report and submit HST on their earning.

 

[Catenary]

How do they handle taxes? Why is it 'borderline criminal'?

This article lays out the way Uber avoids paying taxes outside the US. It's by no means unique to them, but most people probably have no idea it's happening. I do get a text message from my bank every time I use Uber that my CC was used outside of Canada though, which always seems funny.

http://fortune.com/2015/10/22/uber-tax-shell/

 

[narduch]

How do they handle taxes? Why is it 'borderline criminal'?

They don't pay any. That's how they handle it.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

They don't pay any. That's how they handle it.

The US taxes individuals and companies on 'worldwide income', which is not done by most other countries, so US companies create elaborate tax structures to not pay the IRS. Uber is no better nor worse than GE or Starbucks or Google from that point of view.

My question was more about the credit card transaction. Is it not considered a service done in Toronto, and therefore attracting HST? That's the tax they should definitely be paying, just as Amazon does now (e.g.). The Uber drivers need to pay their taxes, but that's another separate issue that I'm sure the CRA will deal with at a corporate level if Uber doesn't train its drivers properly.

 

[Jonny5]

The US taxes individuals and companies on 'worldwide income', which is not done by most other countries, so US companies create elaborate tax structures to not pay the IRS. Uber is no better nor worse than GE or Starbucks or Google from that point of view.

My question was more about the credit card transaction. Is it not considered a service done in Toronto, and therefore attracting HST? That's the tax they should definitely be paying, just as Amazon does now (e.g.). The Uber drivers need to pay their taxes, but that's another separate issue that I'm sure the CRA will deal with at a corporate level if Uber doesn't train its drivers properly.

The drivers should be deducting the HST portion of their fare, then subtracting HST they pay to provide the service (gas, cleaning, mobile network service etc..), and submitting the net to CRA (or requesting CRA refund the net if that is the case).

As an example: If you collect $20 from a rider, it is really a $17.70 fare with $2.30 HST. From that $2.30 you can deduct all the HST you paid to provide it, and submit the net to CRA.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The drivers should be deducting the HST portion of their fare, then subtracting HST they pay to provide the service (gas, cleaning, mobile network service etc..), and submitting the net to CRA (or requesting CRA refund the net if that is the case).

As an example: If you collect $20 from a rider, it is really a $17.70 fare with $2.30 HST. From that $2.30 you can deduct all the HST you paid to provide it, and submit the net to CRA.

So Uber doesn't do any of the accounting for the drivers? Ouch. That must make it a much crappier accounting experience for the drivers. Does Uber just take a fee off the top then?

 

[Jonny5]

So Uber doesn't do any of the accounting for the drivers? Ouch. That must make it a much crappier accounting experience for the drivers. Does Uber just take a fee off the top then?

Uber considers drivers indepenedant contractors. A business would not do accounting for a contractor. This also means they don't withhold payroll taxes from their wages so every April they would have a fat tax bill payable to CRA.

The accounting and HST returns are not difficult, but you have to remember to save a copy of every single receipt you get!

 

[kEiThZ]

Most of these UberX guys probably don't file taxes for this income.