Tamil Protests downtown

[Roy G Biv]

I for one would find that more acceptable. At least Lebanese Canadians had more Lebanese flags than Hezbollah ones at their protests.

That's not my point. Sri Lanka is committing and has committed horrific acts against Tamils, just as the LTTE has committed horrific acts against Indians and the Singhalese. Is Sri Lanka "purposely targeting civilians"? Maybe not, but showing such minimal discretion is essentially analogous.

It's a morally ambiguous situation, more-so than Israel/Palestine.

It's arguable that a Sri Lankan flag should be as offensive as an LTTE flag. And who cares about "terror lists".

 

[mc_h]

Regardless of which side is right or wrong, the Tamil Tigers are a renouned terrorist organization and as such, our government should not be expected to show any sympathy to them. We have our own problems here, sorry to say - And that's what our focus should be on. This is a civil war that has been around for many many years before this and quite frankly, there have been worse civilian casualties in other parts of the world that by in large, go unnoticed.

That's not my point. Sri Lanka is committing and has committed horrific acts against Tamils, just as the LTTE has committed horrible acts against Indians and the Singhalese. Are they "purposely targeting civilians"? Maybe not, but showing such minimal discretion is essentially analogous.

It's a very morally ambiguous situation, more-so than Israel/Palestine.

It's arguable that a Sri Lankan flag should be as offensive as an LTTE flag. And who cares about "terror lists".

 

[Brian69]

As long as it stays on the sidewalks the human chain doesn't bother me much at all. If they'd stuck with it rather than upping the ante people would be far more tolerant of it now. But I also wonder what might happen if the chain decides to start moving.

kEiThZ's article on the Tamil diaspora was quite good and I'm still going through it. While simpler and more direct in its aim the Blatchford article does bring up some important points as well. Although it's not so subtle in its hints that many Tamils are here illegally (and I must admit I never really considered that issue), Blatchford's article highlights the two issues Torontonians seem to be most bothered about. The first is obvious--the ongoing support for the LTTE and it's checkered history.

The other is the assumption that multiculturalism (Canadian-style) allows for a wide preservation of the original culture with the unspoken proviso that the newcomers will leave the old conflicts and enemies back home. A lot of people seem angry that the Tamils have broken this by bringing their politicized conflict here. Now, from the Tamils' point of view the civilian casualties justify it but a lot of the public doesn't seem to agree and clearly the twain shall not meet on this one.

 

[lordmandeep]

People do generally leave their problems behind, but If I go live in Dubai and a civil war breaks out in Canada (lol with the French, most likely they surrender)...

You would be greatly concerned. So its stupid to think that Immigrants should forget what happens in their home country. If a Quebecer can say Canada is my country but Quebec is my homeland (I think Chretien said that), why can't an immigrant???

Like I am born here in Canada but If a crisis hits India, I would pay attention and be concerned.

However I do agree you should not be going out and causing trouble. You should protest lawfully. Actually problem is there are no Tamil MP's...

That is a huge disadvantage for them.


Like if anything happens in the Chinese community there are about 5 Mps. If something happen in the Indian community there are like 9-10 Mp's (yeah Indians done well in Politics here)

 

[Brian69]

Of course I don't think forgetting is the issue--emotions are too strong for that. In fact, much of the disconnect in this issue has been between the emotions on the Tamil side versus the general lack of emotional involvement on the part of everyone else (at least until people's ability to move from A to B was involved and suddenly everyone became emotional).

But as important as emotions are there has to be an awareness of how a third party (third country) will react to a situation in which they have previously had no emotional investment or involvement. How the diaspora directs their emotions is the issue, because a third country is unlikely to understand or share these raw feelings no matter now justified they are perceived to be. As understandable as the Tamil cause might be I find their PR department to be completely incompetent, likely because they are working on group emotions rather than a centralized leadership.

 

[nfitz]

I want everyone to imagine for a second that you are the first wave of motorists proceeding down the Gardiner at 100 kph when the protesters start rushing on to the freeway. Would this seem like a legitimate protest to you when your life is endangered as you swerve to miss people jumping in front of your vehicle? What would your opinion be if one of those motorists was killed trying to avoid a protester?

Is there video of how they entered the Gardiner? There were no vehicles coming up the ramp Spadina ramp.

Your endless harping that people are racist for being angered by these irresponsible and illegal actions is insulting, as is your assumption that anybody who does so is white and racist.

Endless harping? I've raised the concern, endless harping?

Let me tell you, YOU are the only biggoted racist posting in this thread. Even worse, you are a hypocrit for accusing white people of the very thing you show yourself to be!

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You want to explain that very bizarre post? How am I racist? Because I refuse to condem people protesting their slaughter of their families? Because I won't through out the baby with the bathwater? Because I don't think a short closure of a minor highway isn't something that you should get deported for?

Regardless of which side is right or wrong, the Tamil Tigers are a renouned terrorist organization and as such, our government should not be expected to show any sympathy to them

Not sure the logic here. Doctors without Borders is a renowned organization ... what does being renowned have to do with anything?

 

[Tewder]

Endless harping? I've raised the concern, endless harping?

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You want to explain that very bizarre post? How am I racist? Because I refuse to condem people protesting their slaughter of their families? Because I won't through out the baby with the bathwater? Because I don't think a short closure of a minor highway isn't something that you should get deported for?

Spare us the 'poor innocent me' routine, you know very well the comments I am referring to. It is utter hypocrisy to claim it is racist to criticize the actions of the Tamils then state that those who do so must be 'white'. Your comments are irresponsible and do not help the debate, and should not be tolerated here.

 

[Tewder]

Endless harping? I've raised the concern, endless harping?

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You want to explain that very bizarre post? How am I racist? Because I refuse to condem people protesting their slaughter of their families? Because I won't through out the baby with the bathwater? Because I don't think a short closure of a minor highway isn't something that you should get deported for?

Spare us the 'poor innocent me' routine, you know very well the comments I am referring to. It is utter hypocrisy to claim it is racist to criticize the actions of the Tamils then state that those who do so must be 'white'. Your comments are irresponsible and do not help the debate, and should not be tolerated here.

 

[AKS]

Regardless of which side is right or wrong, the Tamil Tigers are a renouned terrorist organization and as such, our government should not be expected to show any sympathy to them

Not sure the logic here. Doctors without Borders is a renowned organization ... what does being renowned have to do with anything

That makes no sense

Tamil tigers are labelled terrorist organization so govt shouldn't expect to show sympathy.

Doctors without borders is a famous organization, what does that have to do with anything?

How does it correlate?

I'm not white, I'm in general not racist and I don't drive a car (closing gardiner doesn't affect me), but many people no matter what race still thinks what the Tamils did by hijacking a highway is wrong no matter what their excuse. It is ILLEGAL. Deporting would be extreme. But I think there should be some sort of punishment to prevent further protests of any type in the future to act like this.

The Tamils should take it to the UN. Canada can't do much. We don't have power. We can't stop what's going on half way around the world. Do they think if Canada just says one word? They will be scared out of their pants and stop attacking each other? And which side does Canada side with? The LTTE who they call terrorist? Or the govt who is slaughtering tamils? I don't know the whole situation, but from the bits and pieces it seems like a no win situation.

 

[nfitz]

Spare us the 'poor innocent me' routine, you know very well the comments I am referring to. It is utter hypocrisy to claim it is racist to criticize the actions of the Tamils then state that those who do so must be 'white'. Your comments are irresponsible and do not help the debate, and should not be tolerated here.

I have no clue to what comments you refer. I'd think many of the whiners are non-white ... why do you think the race of the people complaining matters? I've made absolutely no comments about the race of the people complaining.

Though I do think there are elements of racism at play here. Heck, the whole Tamil thing started because the racist views of the rest of the Sri Lankans in the first place ... and no one was white!

 

[nfitz]

Tamil tigers are labelled terrorist organization so govt shouldn't expect to show sympathy.

Doctors without borders is a famous organization, what does that have to do with anything?

How does it correlate?

That's exactly the question I was asking!

 

[kEiThZ]

Is there video of how they entered the Gardiner? There were no vehicles coming up the ramp Spadina ramp.

I haven't seen video of them entering the Gardiner. But I did hear accounts from drivers on the radio. These drivers were in the first wave and reported that protesters literally ran on to the highway while traffic was moving at full speed. As per radio reports that did actually cause a few accidents. And the injured cops were still reported to be hospitalized on Monday night apparently. All that hardly points to a peaceful protest. We are lucky nobody got killed.

There's a right and wrong way to protests. As I have suggested before what they should have done was protest on the ramps (where traffic is a lot slower) and stop cars to hand out pamphlets or something like that. While that does inconvenience the public it helps get your message out. Running onto a freeway, stranding traffic for hours, assaulting police officers in the process, etc. is hardly the way to earn sympathy for and inform the public about your cause.

Not sure the logic here. Doctors without Borders is a renowned organization ... what does being renowned have to do with anything?

I think he/she meant that the LTTE is a banned organization and one that's achieved global infamy that's why our government should not be associated with the group.

There is some merit to the claim. A big part of the reason they were banned after all, had to do with their export of terror know-how to other terrorists groups including ones that could potentially now be targeting Canadians. Our government does have an alternative....that's working with Tamil politicians in Sri Lanka. For whatever reason the Tamil diaspora here, however, seems to be enthralled with the LTTE....which even Tamils in their homeland have stopped supporting (and whom many consider an obstacle to peace).

 

[EnviroTO]

Though I do think there are elements of racism at play here. Heck, the whole Tamil thing started because the racist views of the rest of the Sri Lankans in the first place ... and no one was white!

That is a chicken and egg debate. Did the Tamils seek independence because they had a negative reaction to living with Sri Lankans or was Sri Lankans showing disrespect to Tamils leading to them seeking independence. It seems Tamils grabbed the gun first and there is definite evidence they purposely sought to remove non-Tamils, especially Muslims, from their occupied territories. Sri Lanka at one point elected a government sympathetic to their cause which doesn't seem to paint a picture of one-way racist behaviour where Sri Lankans are racist towards Tamils when this conflict began. Such feelings may exist now though and such feelings likely haven't been reduced by the actions of the LTTE and their supporters.

 

[Whoaccio]

Off topic, but the LTTE leader looks like a real weaner:

How could that convince you to do anything?

According to the Globe:

Toronto is bracing for another Tamil mass protest today, with tens of thousands of people expected to descend on Queen's Park to form a human chain at noon, possibly targeting the downtown subway as well.[emphasis added]

I wonder if people will be more or less pissed off if this comes to pass. I can't help but feel some people think that blocking the Gardiner is somehow noble because it is the Gardiner, car drivers not being real people and all. Will be neat to see what happens if the subway gets screwed.

 

[kEiThZ]

That is a chicken and egg debate. Did the Tamils seek independence because they had a negative reaction to living with Sri Lankans or was Sri Lankans showing disrespect to Tamils leading to them seeking independence. It seems Tamils grabbed the gun first and there is definite evidence they purposely sought to remove non-Tamils, especially Muslims, from their occupied territories. Sri Lanka at one point elected a government sympathetic to their cause which doesn't seem to paint a picture of one-way racist behaviour where Sri Lankans are racist towards Tamils when this conflict began. Such feelings may exist now though and such feelings likely haven't been reduced by the actions of the LTTE and their supporters.

If you want to go back even further, the Tamils were the governing class while Sri Lanka was a British colony and it could be argued that much of the Sinhalese antagonism arises from the resentment coming from that period.

Regardless of who started it, the conflict has evolved significantly since. Many moderate Sinhalese politicians have come to the fore and many Tamil groups have successfully concluded peace agreements with the government. Not everything is perfect of course but at this very moment the only group that truly remains opposed to peace is the LTTE. What's stopping them from laying down their arms and signing a peace deal like Tamils in the East?

Their supporters in the diaspora are not helping. They maintain hardline positions accusing Tamils who sign peace deals of treachery. And while they rightly challenge the Sri Lankan governments actions they do not question the LTTE's motives and practices at all. Is it right that they demand the government stop shelling the safe zone while remaining absolutely silent on the LTTE's documented efforts at preventing refugees from leaving the safe zone? Their cause will gain credibility when they show they care more about the Tamils than the Tigers.