Star: T.O. debt balloons $497M in 2007

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Felino:

I find that hard to believe.

Actually, feel free to look up, for example, the NY/NY study on supportive housing for the homeless (Culhane, et al.). Housing may not be cheap, but it's certainly cheaper than shelters, jails AND ERs. In addition, the use of the latter produces a really poor quality of life for the individual, and more or less condemns the person to more of the same.

Oh and BTW, social housing are often problematic because it is a "dumping ground" for individuals that are poorly served in other areas (particularly mental health), due to changes in policies at other levels of government. Deinstitutionalization is a perfect example - guess where the cost savings occured, and where the additional costs are brought to bear?


AoD

 

[Glen]

Felino:



Actually, feel free to look up, for example, the NY/NY study on supportive housing for the homeless (Culhane, et al.). Housing may not be cheap, but it's certainly cheaper than shelters, jails AND ERs. In addition, the use of the latter produces a really poor quality of life for the individual, and more or less condemns the person to more of the same.

Oh and BTW, social housing are often problematic because it is a "dumping ground" for individuals that are poorly served in other areas (particularly mental health), due to changes in policies at other levels of government. Deinstitutionalization is a perfect example - guess where the cost savings occured, and where the additional costs are brought to bear?


AoD

The problem with most of the studies on homeless and housing is that they do not delineate those with mental illness. I agree that supportive housing is necessary for those individuals and it is cost effective.

The use of public money for the housing of able bodied non mentally ill persons whom have no intention of working and who structure there lifestyle in order to receive public housing, is a legitimate issue.

 

[Felino]

The use of public money for the housing of able bodied non mentally ill persons whom have no intention of working and who structure there lifestyle in order to receive public housing, is a legitimate issue.

That's a much nicer way of putting it, thanks Glen!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Oh and BTW, social housing are often problematic because it is a "dumping ground" for individuals that are poorly served in other areas (particularly mental health), due to changes in policies at other levels of government. Deinstitutionalization is a perfect example - guess where the cost savings occured, and where the additional costs are brought to bear?AoD

I fully, 100% support the reopening and reintroduction of insane asylums. It would eliminate a huge portion of our street people population, which is good for both the patients getting shelter and care, and the city.

 

[Dichotomy]

Only a half billion? That's good news, no? Is that before or after the sell -off of wifi space?

The City has no business in public housing. Period. The Province should be footing the bill, at least for the capital expenses. Nice that they 'gift' us $200 million. Thanks, Mr. Premier.

The $75 million in backlogged repairs? A drop in the bucket. My sister does site inspections, and even she can't believe what she sees in some of the buildings she visits.

Question: is it the landlord's fault, or the people living in them. You won't like the answer; Toronto Star headlines to the contrary.

I'm all for giving people a 'hand up,' but many of these people are just screwing us, the taxpayer. And who does the auditing? The same unionized, liberal arts grads, that's who.

Toronto becomes a magnet for many of the 'under-privileged' and downtrodden in this country; hell - from many countries. Ottawa and Queen's Park have to stop bouncing city hall around and admit that Toronto is a special case, if not basket case, and lend a permanent hand.
The highways, TTC, welfare and social housing programs should be largely paid for by the Province.
My two cents.

 

[Hydrogen]

I'm all for giving people a 'hand up,' but many of these people are just screwing us, the taxpayer. And who does the auditing? The same unionized, liberal arts grads, that's who.

I always thought that auditing was done by people with a background in accounting.

Also, I didn't realize that one automatically became a union member after graduating with a liberal arts degree.

 

[Dichotomy]

The two are inexoribaly entwined. The accountants make the accounting rules and the lawyers make the laws. Both have a vested interest in making the rules so incredibly complex, that (surprise, surprise) you need an accountant or lawyer to explain them. Sounds like a closed fraternity to me.

Fresh off today's headlines... $5.5 million (that is MILLION, not that that is a lot of money these days ) was allocated to build 'affordable' housing on Finch St. W., but the project ballooned to $12.4 million (MILLION, for those who are hard of seeing) and the city has agreed to spend $852k more (pittance!) and hand the entire thing over to the TCH.

Susan Hall doesn't think that there is anything 'criminal' going on? What, someone didn't walk into a bank and put a gun to a clerk's head? Who needs to these days, you can walk into Silly Hall with your hand out and get $13 million!!!!!

And these are the people we are to entrust to tear down the Gardiner for "300 million?"

For those who support tearing down the Gardiner, let's make a deal: I'll throw my support behind it, if we can agree that if the project costs one dollar more, we can sue the pants off Miller and anyone else connected with it.

 

[Glen]

Question: is it the landlord's fault, or the people living in them. You won't like the answer; Toronto Star headlines to the contrary.

My In-laws used to live beside a guy that worked maintenance for TCH. I remember him telling me that some residents would intentionally break their appliances in order to get new ones. Even though the old ones were working fine. Sometimes just to get a new colour.

 

[Dichotomy]

My In-laws used to live beside a guy that worked maintenance for TCH. I remember him telling me that some residents would intentionally break their appliances in order to get new ones. Even though the old ones were working fine. Sometimes just to get a new colour.

It's much worse than that. My sister has had to be escorted by the police to inspect some of the sites she has been to. The filth. The squalor. There is absolutely nothing the landlord can do.

And it isn't just THC. In a lot of cases we are talking about little old ladies who rent out their basement to the Tenant From Hell.

But it does make for great headlines in the Toronto Star, doesn't it?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Dicotomy:

Actually, just so you know, there have been numerous reports in the Toronto Star on the housing conditions at some of the TCHC sites. I am sure you can track them down yourself if you wish. Then again, hysterical sound bites on media biases and labelling something as "socialist" always trumps getting your hands dirty researching articles, right?

AoD

 

[Dichotomy]

Dicotomy:

Actually, just so you know, there have been numerous reports in the Toronto Star on the housing conditions at some of the TCHC sites. I am sure you can track them down yourself if you wish. Then again, hysterical sound bites on media biases and labelling something as "socialist" always trumps getting your hands dirty researching articles, right?

AoD

Not at all, I have a sister that visits them, sort of better than 3rd hand, ya think? She has no axe to grind, in fact there is no one more pro-union than her, so getting her to admit there is a problem is sometimes hard, but she does see both sides.

 

[Hydrogen]

The two are inexoribaly entwined. The accountants make the accounting rules and the lawyers make the laws. Both have a vested interest in making the rules so incredibly complex, that (surprise, surprise) you need an accountant or lawyer to explain them. Sounds like a closed fraternity to me.

I remember him telling me that some residents would intentionally break their appliances in order to get new ones. Even though the old ones were working fine. Sometimes just to get a new colour.

Fraternity?!

Sounds like a galldern CONSPIRACY!!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Dichotomy:

I have a sister that visits them, sort of better than 3rd hand, ya think?

Actually, considering I have, and is still doing research (including field research) in the area, I think you should just put the talk about your sisters' experience as some sort of "special understanding" or "sage knowledge" on your part aside. It isn't like you went with your sister to do the rounds, no?

AoD

 

[Dichotomy]

Fraternity?!

Sounds like a galldern CONSPIRACY!!

You can laugh, but how do you explain stuff like the MFP (lack of) scandal, and the more scandalous inquiry afterward? A bad episode of the Twilight Zone?
It does't have to be a literal conspiracy, just lack of imagination and general laziness, much like you see at Queen's Park and City Hall.

A client of mine was one of the lead counsels for Imperial Oil and I asked him about the MFP scandal. I asked him to explain how they could spend $11 million, just sitting around asking questions.

His explanation was simple: In the public sector, he said, there is no limit to the number of dumb questions that can be asked (what if a meteor landed on us next week?) and the usual suspects will feed at the trough until the ridiculous has been passed; whereas, in the private sector, a budget is set out (normally far less than what the public sector would tolerate since they aren't spending their own money) and once that $$ amount is reached, a consensus must be reached.

 

[Dichotomy]

Dichotomy:



Actually, considering I have, and is still doing research (including field research) in the area, I think you should just put the talk about your sisters' experience as some sort of "special understanding" or "sage knowledge" on your part aside. It isn't like you went with your sister to do the rounds, no?

AoD

Look, my intention is not to butt heads, and I understand that your 1,700 + posts earns you a lot more respect around here than mine. I regret that it has taken me so many years to finally get angry enough to get off my duff and start trying to open people's eyes. My political youth is a long time behind me, but I am surprised that the fires didn't burn out. In fact, I am more fed up now with the nonsense than I was 25 years ago.
I am a fast learner, though. And I am testing the waters, so to speak, because this city needs to be shaken up and I intend on doing just that.
Perhaps in another 500 posts or so you will see that I do know what I am talking about...fancy education or no.