St Lawrence Market

[rdaner]

^You, like everyone, have the intelligence to look at your situation and make rational adjustments to improve outcomes. Right?! That’s how it works…

 

[DSCToronto]

well received by the local community? Really? So locals are happy with the backlog on Front, Jarvis, all the way down to the on-ramp? I don't think so, hence the police on point duty during "rush" hour. All those cars are full of people who have done a day's work and want to go home, do they not get any consideration? The traffic needs to move unobstructed thru the downtown core, drivers frequently get frustrated/impatient and end up blocking the intersections/pedestrians. The economic focus on recreation is a bit alarming, it's all spas/casinos/loitering, like nothing else is profitable for the city, yet all those new office buildings full of real people with lives/homes not in the core. I don't like the little Market Street detour cut off, having it open again feels much more normal to me.

You may disagree but the St Lawrence Neighbourhood Association and the local BIA support the year-round pedestrianisation of that block of Market Street and it was very heavily used by people when it was closed off. The big reason to keep it closed all year is that if it were pedestrianised all year the City and the BIA could improve the physical layout and make it more suitable for seating - more permanent seating areas etc. I agree that traffic is a problem but vehicles going down Market Street from Front to avoid Lower Jarvis normally fail to get to the Gardiner any sooner as they usually cannot turn onto The Esplanade due to huge backlogs of cars on The Esplanade - many coming from the Green P further south!

 

[Northern Light]

well received by the local community?

Really? So locals are happy with the backlog on Front, Jarvis, all the way down to the on-ramp?

@DSCToronto has already made some excellent points above. But I want to address a couple as well.

You start here by suggesting locals are not happy (I would note DSC is one, and clearly prefers the closure, as do many others).

But you then go on to identify that the unhappy people are those who don't live in the area, who evidently aren't locals.

People making a commute home can absolutely have opinions/takes, but conflating those with people who live locally doesn't work, they are a different group of people, not locals.

I don't think so, hence the police on point duty during "rush" hour. All those cars are full of people who have done a day's work and want to go home, do they not get any consideration?

Everyone is entitled to consideration, not everyone gets to have their ideal outcome. As with a host of things in life, having your cake and eating it too can prove challenging.

If you choose to work in downtown Toronto, but not live there, and to commute by car, for the most part, you can't get 'free' parking. That choice will cost you at least $20 per day, and maybe double that.

Its a fact of life avoided by choosing instead, as many do, to park at a suburban GO Station and take the train in instead. The train also costs money, but generally a fair bit less than parking.

The traffic needs to move unobstructed thru the downtown core,

This is not a achievable in rush hour, zero chance. You can reopen Market Street and you will not get this result or anything close to it.

The only way you may get closer to that, is if fewer people drive into downtown in the first place, and aside from shutting it down, the only way to achieve that is having more people choose transit instead.

That might be achieved, in part, by tolling the Gardiner and DVP; This would then lower traffic levels on same, which reduce backups getting onto same, and with fewer cars downtown, the remaining ones, presumably driven by people who find transit a particular hardship will move a bit quicker, though likely not free flowing.

drivers frequently get frustrated/impatient and end up blocking the intersections/pedestrians.

Again, largely a self-inflicted, chosen, problem. I appreciate there are a small number of people who for any number of reasons must drive, but that is a very small minority of those who do.

I say this, by the way, as a central city resident who owns a car and is a driver; but who almost never drives into downtown, and certainly not during weekday rush hours.

The economic focus on recreation is a bit alarming, it's all spas/casinos/loitering, like nothing else is profitable for the city.

Hold on Market Street in spas and casinos? I don't think so.......

Try again.

Its also important to note closing one block of a small street next to one of the City's leading tourist attractions (St. Lawrence Market), which also employs hundreds of people and hosts dozens of businesses with owners who often work quite hard is not going to imperil the big banks at all, or the downtown law firms, what it will do is draw more locals and tourists alike to the market, helping improve bottom lines.

yet all those new office buildings full of real people with lives/homes not in the core.

As opposed to which buildings that contain fake people? Or was it fake people filling all the patios at the restaurants on Market Street ? I'm confused.

I don't like the little Market Street detour cut off, having it open again feels much more normal to me.

That's nice; and sincerely, you're welcome to your preference. But I think you would find many of your neighbours both residents and business owners disagree. As well as many people working those bank towers who stroll down to Market street after work for a drink with colleagues before catching the GO Train home.

 

[junctionist]

We have a long way to go as a city if people expect convenient driving in a historic Old Town area.

 

[PL1]

We have a long way to go as a city if people expect convenient driving in a historic Old Town area.

C.f. foreigners in Athens: "Who laid out these streets, and why are they so narrow?"

 

[Lisa1956]

Market Street is a useful transit route not just a poser's palace. AS A LOCAL - the traffic moving THROUGH the AREA as opposed to at STANDSTILL in the area is much more desirable. AS A LOCAL born at St Mike's and resident for DECADES, I do regard myself as being just as important as those who WHINE about street furniture or over priced restaraunts that only survive a year or two. Keeping the workers from the city moving is a valid consideration, since, y'know, they pay their taxes, buy petrol, work for the city's economy. They would use transit if it was COMFORTABLE, CONVENIENT and RELIABLE. Get it? It is too bad Toronto has become so fragmented that DIVERSITY is frowned upon by allegedly broad minded keyboard warriors. *DIVERSITY includes opinions, priorities, and outlook.

 

[DSCToronto]

Market Street is a useful transit route not just a poser's palace. AS A LOCAL - the traffic moving THROUGH the AREA as opposed to at STANDSTILL in the area is much more desirable. AS A LOCAL born at St Mike's and resident for DECADES, I do regard myself as being just as important as those who WHINE about street furniture or over priced restaraunts that only survive a year or two. Keeping the workers from the city moving is a valid consideration, since, y'know, they pay their taxes, buy petrol, work for the city's economy. They would use transit if it was COMFORTABLE, CONVENIENT and RELIABLE. Get it? It is too bad Toronto has become so fragmented that DIVERSITY is frowned upon by allegedly broad minded keyboard warriors. *DIVERSITY includes opinions, priorities, and outlook.

Nobody is saying you cannot offer differing opinions and diversity of opinion, priority and outlook is good but what you are saying is NOT the view of most St Lawrence locals expressed at the St Lawrence Neighbourhood Association, through the BIA, from our Councillor (who runs a local business close to Market Street) and, for what it's worth, me and virtually everyone who I talk to. The City closed that block of Market Street for 9+ months and the traffic was much as it always is, and the street saw LOTS of use by pedestrians, relaxers and 'stuff'. Keeping in closed for the rest of the year would allow the City & BIA to make the seating better and provide more things to be enjoyed by locals and visitors. To call Market Street a 'useful transit route' is not true (even if you mean vehicular). The use of the new Traffic Agents who stop vehicles blocking intersections has done FAR more to move traffic through the area faster than using Market Street as a 'by-pass' ever would, or could. If you want to live in an area where traffic is prioritised over people, you might be happier in Ward 2 in Etobicoke with Stephen Holyday.

 

[Northern Light]

Market Street is a useful transit route not just a poser's palace. AS A LOCAL - the traffic moving THROUGH the AREA as opposed to at STANDSTILL in the area is much more desirable. AS A LOCAL born at St Mike's and resident for DECADES, I do regard myself as being just as important as those who WHINE about street furniture or over priced restaraunts that only survive a year or two. Keeping the workers from the city moving is a valid consideration, since, y'know, they pay their taxes, buy petrol, work for the city's economy. They would use transit if it was COMFORTABLE, CONVENIENT and RELIABLE. Get it? It is too bad Toronto has become so fragmented that DIVERSITY is frowned upon by allegedly broad minded keyboard warriors. *DIVERSITY includes opinions, priorities, and outlook.

1) Using capital letters does not make your point(s) any stronger. If fact, it makes them look weaker, since you use them in lieu of credible arguments.

2) That you were born in a Toronto hospital (as I was), does not make your opinion any more (or less) valuable than any other resident, or business owner.

3) Your use of the word 'whine' to describe a concern held by others, while presumably imagining that your concerns are not whining can be reasonably described as hypocritical and needlessly hostile.

4) People who disagree with you also pay taxes. Hard to afford those over-priced restaurants and the good clothes to go posing when unemployed.

5) GO Transit is fairly reliable and reasonably comfortable, it could be more frequent to be sure, that's a fair critique; but one not addressed by closing or opening Market Street.

6) Finally, the only keyboard warrior in this discussion is you. Most of us come here to have thoughtful exchanges of views, share knowledge and experience, and not to demean everyone who doesn't share our view; which is the only reason you seem to be here.

 

[CityPainter]

The Goose Island and Bier Markt pubs on the Esplanade are now both closed. According to rumours elsewhere online, they were both purchased by the owner of the neighbouring Scotland Yard pub. Does anyone have information about what the plan is here? That stretch of large patios is great for the area, especially in summer, and I hope it stays intact in some form.

 

[Lisa1956]

1) Using capital letters does not make your point(s) any stronger. If fact, it makes them look weaker, since you use them in lieu of credible arguments.

2) That you were born in a Toronto hospital (as I was), does not make your opinion any more (or less) valuable than any other resident, or business owner.

3) Your use of he word 'whine' to describe a concern held by others, while presumably imagining that your concerns are not whining can be reasonably described as hypocritical and needlessly hostile.

4) People who disagree with you also pay taxes. Hard to afford those over-priced restaurants and the good clothes to go posing when unemployed.

5) GO Transit is fairly reliable and reasonably comfortable, it could be more frequent to be sure, that's a fair critique; but one not addressed by closing or opening Market Street.

6) Finally, the only keyboard warrior in this discussion is you. Most of us come here to have thoughtful exchanges of views, share knowledge and experience, and not to demean everyone who doesn't share our view; which is the only reason you seem to be here.

you said LOCAL like it was so important, so as a LOCAL I must QUALIFY my opinion. Not all locals are happy with the street being blocked off for 10 months of the year, so stop implying that is the truth. The street can be used by cars on weekdays and pedestrianized on weekends. See? This LOCAL has a mind of their own and doesn't need to be led around by the nose. The original statement "locals and businesses like Market St being closed" was in ERROR. Again, this LOCAL doesn't like it.

 

[DSCToronto]

you said LOCAL like it was so important, so as a LOCAL I must QUALIFY my opinion. Not all locals are happy with the street being blocked off for 10 months of the year, so stop implying that is the truth. The street can be used by cars on weekdays and pedestrianized on weekends. See? This LOCAL has a mind of their own and doesn't need to be led around by the nose. The original statement "locals and businesses like Market St being closed" was in ERROR. Again, this LOCAL doesn't like it.

Nobody here said that ALL locals want Market Street fully pedestrianised, I doubt you would find unanimity of anything in St Lawrence or on UT. Nobody is 'trying to lead you around by your nose'. As noted earlier, the reason why weekend-only closure is less desirable is that if the street is used for vehicles at any time, it cannot be redesigned and improved for the MANY pedestrians who use it, You are (I assume) human and can certainly have opinions - the problem for many of us here is that some of them are clearly poorly thought out.