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St Lawrence Market

Northern Light

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Market Lane Park consultation on 29 June. Very full presentation at https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...rk-improvements-presentation-june-29-2021.pdf

From the above consultation presentation:

(example pictures, not renders)

1624818206089.png


1624818231248.png


1624818263735.png


1624818301414.png


1624818339894.png


1624818363066.png



1624818385439.png


1624818408793.png


1624818441769.png


1624818473960.png


*********

First thought.........Too many 'Big Moves' for Too small a space! Over-programming.............Edit required.

Second thought, some of these moves directly contradict each other.

Substantial retention of most trees serves to obstruct visual permeability (I want to keep most of the trees,but you can't do both); likewise, lots of seating and horticultural beds is inconsistent with flexible space.

******

Here..........freebies for the designers. (yes, I will submit comments)

Lets look at the park from the north using streetview:

1624818714617.png


Trees at the west side of the park (beside Market Square) are in the best condition, these should be prioritized for retention.

Followed by some trees on the east side.

Trees in the centre should be removed, they hinder flexible use, visual permeability and and add little value.

Paving treatment should mirror Market Street to the south, providing a visual link to the street of which it is historically, a part.

1624818951541.png



Park light fixtures should be the area standard Victorian Lamps, as these link the park to Market Street and St. James Park to the north which both use these fixtures. (good excuse to buy extra so hydro can't say they don't have spares!)

Horticultural/First Nations ideas can be combined, where new open planters are created around trees.

Ostrich Ferns would grow well here, look attractive and are 'fiddleheads' which is certainly a popular market item in spring.

There is largely insufficient sun to grow any type of 'crop' plants, I would tend to steer clear of this idea at this location.

But......with a replacement water feature at Front Street, where the sun is most robust, it would be possible to encircle the fountain with Wild Blueberries (someone tell them not to use Toronto topsoil....wrong Ph level).

The berries could surround the fixture, with water around that, and seating at the perimeter. Intelligent use of space.

***

If Market street is to go fully pedestrian, which I gather it may, the middle of the road here, at Front would be a good spot for a 'three sisters' set of planters.........subject to irrigation. (that would have to be replanted every year).

*opportunity*, tie any such planting to the group growing crops on school roofs, and selling the produce at Farmer's Markets. (three sisters refers to Corn, Beans and Squash, which grow together well)

Market Street is also better suited to performances, with all the patios, a wide open space (current road) and currently, no established trees to protect.

***

- Hydronic snowmelt please, so we can eliminate salt-use here.

- Custom waste receptacles approved by the BIA here, not the ugly Parks monstrosities, and give them an intelligent, permanent location.....no random what staff feels like because its Tuesday.

- Keep King Street gateway simple, use low-maintenance, native plant display, with 4-season interest.
 
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Andy_in_Toronto

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Will Market Lane be closed for car traffic this summer?

I saw something approved by City Council. Looking forward to a pedestrian only space.
 

Andy_in_Toronto

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A very few customers are parking on Market Lane. However, this comes with a price invading pedestrian space with SUV’s with many more people being customers of those merchants coming to the area with a different mean of transportation.

There are so many parking garages close by. How can all SLM merchant’s sale being dependent on the same 8 parking spots?.
 

Northern Light

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A very few customers are parking on Market Lane. However, this comes with a price invading pedestrian space with SUV’s with many more people being customers of those merchants coming to the area with a different mean of transportation.

There are so many parking garages close by. How can all SLM merchant’s sale being dependent on the same 8 parking spots?.

Shhh!

They're not!

****

8 spaces, IF they had a moderately high churn rate would equate to about 40 customers on a busy day, (during SLM hours) spread among all the different area merchants and restos.

The odds that any one market merchant has more than 2 such cars daily is very remote.

Add in that if that mode of travel was important to a customer, the chances are that most customers and would abide an alternative parking lot nearby.
 

Towered

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From the above consultation presentation:

(example pictures, not renders)

View attachment 330739

View attachment 330740

View attachment 330741

View attachment 330742

View attachment 330744

View attachment 330745


View attachment 330746

View attachment 330747

View attachment 330752

View attachment 330753

*********

First thought.........Too many 'Big Moves' for Too small a space! Over-programming.............Edit required.

Second thought, some of these moves directly contradict each other.

Substantial retention of most trees serves to obstruct visual permeability (I want to keep most of the trees,but you can't do both); likewise, lots of seating and horticultural beds is inconsistent with flexible space.

******

Here..........freebies for the designers. (yes, I will submit comments)

Lets look at the park from the north using streetview:

View attachment 330755

Trees at the west side of the park (beside Market Square) are in the best condition, these should be prioritized for retention.

Followed by some trees on the east side.

Trees in the centre should be removed, they hinder flexible use, visual permeability and and add little value.

Paving treatment should mirror Market Street to the south, providing a visual link to the street of which it is historically, a part.

View attachment 330759


Park light fixtures should be the area standard Victorian Lamps, as these link the park to Market Street and St. James Park to the north which both use these fixtures. (good excuse to buy extra so hydro can't say they don't have spares!)

Horticultural/First Nations ideas can be combined, where new open planters are created around trees.

Ostrich Ferns would grow well here, look attractive and are 'fiddleheads' which is certainly a popular market item in spring.

There is largely insufficient sun to grow any type of 'crop' plants, I would tend to steer clear of this idea at this location.

But......with a replacement water feature at Front Street, where the sun is most robust, it would be possible to encircle the fountain with Wild Blueberries (someone tell them not to use Toronto topsoil....wrong Ph level).

The berries could surround the fixture, with water around that, and seating at the perimeter. Intelligent use of space.

***

If Market street is to go fully pedestrian, which I gather it may, the middle of the road here, at Front would be a good spot for a 'three sisters' set of planters.........subject to irrigation. (that would have to be replanted every year).

*opportunity*, tie any such planting to the group growing crops on school roofs, and selling the produce at Farmer's Markets. (three sisters refers to Corn, Beans and Squash, which grow together well)

Market Street is also better suited to performances, with all the patios, a wide open space (current road) and currently, no established trees to protect.

***

- Hydronic snowmelt please, so we can eliminate salt-use here.

- Custom waste receptacles approved by the BIA here, not the ugly Parks monstrosities, and give them an intelligent, permanent location.....no random what staff feels like because its Tuesday.

- Keep King Street gateway simple, use low-maintenance, native plant display, with 4-season interest.

Slide 54 is how I imagine New Hampshire looks.
 

condovo

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Slide 54 is Church Street in Burlington, Vermont. Growing up in Montreal, my family used to drive down to Burlington almost every weekend. It's only about an hour and a half away.
 

Northern Light

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Hey @DSC

Did you see this story:


Paywalled, but Outline works.
 
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DSC

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Hey @DSC

Did you see this story:


Paywalled, but Outline works.
I saw it and it reinforces my opinion that Toronto Hydro is 'out of control". If it is owned 100% by the City then, presumably, the City can get rid of any Directors who supported these excessive bonuses. I assume (!!!) that the 3 Councillors on the Board of Hydro (Minnan-Wong, Holyday and Ainslie) voted against them but would be interested in know if they went against City policy and OKed them. (I do not think Board votes are published???)
 

Northern Light

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I saw it and it reinforces my opinion that Toronto Hydro is 'out of control". If it is owned 100% by the City then, presumably, the City can get rid of any Directors who supported these excessive bonuses. I assume (!!!) that the 3 Councillors on the Board of Hydro (Minnan-Wong, Holyday and Ainslie) voted against them but would be interested in know if they went against City policy and OKed them. (I do not think Board votes are published???)

I do not see any public agendas here: https://www.torontohydro.com/about-us/governance
 

DSC

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Just a footnote to the Wellington Street Fiasco. Wong-Tam held a virtual meeting on this last week; many staff there from Engineering & Construction Services and Transportation (though NOT the two Directors) plus representatives from the BIA, the SLNA, individual buildings and property owners. Predictably, there was no apology for the screw-up from City Staff apart from an admission that the 'communications could have been better'. Wong-Tam and all the non-City Staff there urged a fall re-start (either to finish everything before Christmas or only to complete pre-determined sections like the section on Church from King to the Flat Iron). Equally predictable, the City announced on Friday that 'after full consideration' all work was stopped until "Spring 2022". During the meeting it was clear that the City seemed to be unaware of the location of much of the (new!) underground infrastructure and in was announced that one building had had a sewer blockage for several days and 'nothing is being done'. All in all, it was exactly as one might have predicted and we are left with a sea of uneven asphalt and Jersey barriers for the next 6-8 months. The idea of an 'inquiry' was raised by several participants and Wong-Tam (plus some individual participants) are considering referring the matter to the City's Auditor-General.

In their report on the meeting ECS had a series of Q and A. The one on the extra cost says: "Managing and controlling project costs is a fundamental part of the City's processes for project management and budget oversight. As a matter of City policy, unforeseen project costs are managed and controlled first through contingency values in project budgets and Change Order processes which require oversight and management approval. The total cost of delay to the project is not yet known, but will be documented through the City's Capital Budget administration processes." As far as I know, they lump all their over and under expenditures together in one place in any published accounts so it is impossible to see individual project information.
 

Jonny5

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Hey @DSC

Did you see this story:


Paywalled, but Outline works.

I saw it and it reinforces my opinion that Toronto Hydro is 'out of control". If it is owned 100% by the City then, presumably, the City can get rid of any Directors who supported these excessive bonuses. I assume (!!!) that the 3 Councillors on the Board of Hydro (Minnan-Wong, Holyday and Ainslie) voted against them but would be interested in know if they went against City policy and OKed them. (I do not think Board votes are published???)

Executive bonuses like these are almost never simply discretionary dollar amounts that are approved on a whim at board meetings. They are almost always mostly written in detail in employment contracts, with lists of performance targets to be met, each of which trigger bonus pool opportunities. This is especially true for executives at quasi-government entities that go in knowing they must shield themselves from political outrages like "how can he get a bonus in this economy, in the middle of a pandemic, where service workers are all unemployed!" I highly doubt if there was anything significant to vote on beyond "do we pay all the legally obligated amounts, or do we not for political reasons, get sued, lose very quickly, and wind up paying the original amount anyway, plus damages, plus even more in legal expenses?".

So you need to go back to when the current CEO was hired, or the time if and when his contract was since renegotiated, and find out who were the directors that approved this current contract. Are they still on the board? IIRC he's been the CEO through multiple municipal elections.
 
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DSC

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The former building that housed the Starbucks (a couple of years ago) on south-west corner of King and George has been for rent for ages. Today I see the building is for sale. I had actually assumed the whole block had been 'assembled' but maybe not (yet!). I think this may be worth watching.

EDIT. Realtor is Site Lines Realty but the sale is not noted on their website.
 
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