Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

ShonTron said:
Why should a TTC passenger pay only a TTC fare to go to Pearson Airport? It's in Mississauga, after all, and should be forced either to get off the bus and walk from Dixon Road and Carlingview or pay a Mississauga fare to go an extra stop. Otherwise, it's pure entitlement.
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Many airports with high transit usage have a premium for the airport stop simply to prevent subsidizing tourist trips. It's coincidental that the municipality changes but it wouldn't be out of ordinary for the airport stop to have an added $1 to $3 fee for single and round-trip tickets.

You can often save $3 by walking from the airport to a nearby intersection/hotel before hailing a cab too.


As for the municipality fare divide, that's really something the province needs to take ownership of and tackle. The province created the boundaries with separate transit agencies (collecting their own fares) for each, and there are too many parties for an OC Transpo/STO type agreement to form naturally.
 
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rbt said:
Many airports with high transit usage have a premium for the airport stop simply to prevent subsidizing tourist trips. It's coincidental that the municipality changes as typically it's an argument that the visitor should pay the full fare instead of a subsidized fare, but it wouldn't be out of expectations for the airport stop to have an added $1 to $3 fee for single and round-trip tickets.
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That's a separate argument altogether.

There are some transit agencies that charge visitors extra to get from the airport, particularly those without a pass or farecard. Calgary does this, but only on the 300 route, the direct bus to downtown; it requires the purchase of a day pass if boarding at the airport without a monthly pass. (The special fare does not apply to the 100 route, a local service that connects to the LRT.) It's not too bad if you're arriving in the morning and planning to take a few transit rides, but is a rip-off if arriving in the evening, as it's not a 24-hour pass, but a calendar day pass. Montreal does something similar for the 747 express from Dorval/Trudeau but the fare from the airport includes a full 24-hour pass.

The TTC probably doesn't do this partly because buses serving the airport (especially the 52 and the night buses) are used by airport workers, not so much by tourists, but if it wanted to, it could require a special ticket to be purchased in advance if boarding at T1 or T3 without a Presto card.

But we're talking airport premium fares, not the idea of paying a double fare for a major trip generator located just beyond a municipal boundary that was previously a one-fare ride.
 
rbt said:
Finch usage is quite poor today too with fewer than 5k walk-ins per day. That station would be considered a design/operations failure in many cities because it requires massive additional bus operations in order to bring passengers to the station, rather than the station/lines being built where the passengers start/end their trips. If you redirected the buses to another service (ideally a rail station within walking distance of the passengers starting location) then Yonge north of Eglingon would be running trains at 10 minute frequencies with seats still available.
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Sometimes I just can't. It's a failure because of WALK-INs? Really?
Surely you understand it's DESIGNED to be a terminal station fed by buses and the parking lot. Indeed, the bus-feeding is PRECISELY what made TTC a model agency that others studied, back in the 70s. And that's ignoring that it's the north anchor of NYCC, home to density that was likely unimaginable in 1975, and that development is now steadily moving further north.
Next you'll tell me the Cinesphere is a failure because it doesn't get Three's Company re-runs.
Or Union Station is a failure because there's no parking, maybe. Jeeeze, people.

But if you sincerely want to increase walk-ins and bring it closer to where passengers start/end their trips, reducing use of the parking lot and the number of buses that flow in there every day, I have the easiest solution in the world for you: EXTEND IT TO HIGHWAY 7 AND ELIMINATE THE DOUBLE FARE. The shift will happen overnight.
 
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rbt said:
As for the municipality fare divide, that's really something the province needs to take ownership of and tackle. The province created the boundaries with separate transit agencies (collecting their own fares) for each, and there are too many parties for an OC Transpo/STO type agreement to form naturally.
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But there is an agreement, outside of Toronto.
York, Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton, and probably more accept either other's transfers along long as they're still valid. It's literally only TTC that doesn't have such an agreement. While they don't accept passes, Presto simplifies the whole thing. One can easily go from Mississauga via Brampton to York without paying an extra fare if they avoid Toronto.
 
johntauren said:
But there is an agreement, outside of Toronto.
York, Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville, Burlington, Hamilton, and probably more accept either other's transfers along long as they're still valid. It's literally only TTC that doesn't have such an agreement. While they don't accept passes, Presto simplifies the whole thing. One can easily go from Mississauga via Brampton to York without paying an extra fare if they avoid Toronto.
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We should honestly just have one GTA transit system for all systems other than TTC, but this an argument for another day..
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
We should honestly just have one GTA transit system for all systems other than TTC, but this an argument for another day..
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We should have one transit system for a population of around 3M and then another system for the other 3M - bearing in mind that the latter carries something like 85% of the overall ridership - and not fully integrate them? Why? Wouldn't that just reinforce precisely the sort of problem we're discussing at York U? Isn't the entire point here that we have multiple systems converging and failing to integrate with one another due to political/financial reasons?
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
We should have one transit system for a population of around 3M and then another system for the other 3M - bearing in mind that the latter carries something like 85% of the overall ridership - and not fully integrate them? Why? Wouldn't that just reinforce precisely the sort of problem we're discussing at York U? Isn't the entire point here that we have multiple systems converging and failing to integrate with one another due to political/financial reasons?
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Your last few words : political/financial reasons, is why our transit systems within the GTA are so bad with interconnectabilty. In the case of York U, that area is great for interconnectability with transit because there is Line 1, YRT, Viva, Zum Brampton and GO buses all serving that area.
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
Your last few words : political/financial reasons, is why our transit systems within the GTA are so bad with interconnectabilty. In the case of York U, that area is great for interconnectability with transit because there is Line 1, YRT, Viva, Zum Brampton and GO buses all serving that area.
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Oh, I entirely agree. I think the York problem is entirely a political creation. That's why - as I said above - I (broadly speaking) don't object to a provincial upload of the subway. If the problems are caused by disagreements between (in this case) YRT and TTC (or York Region and Toronto), the way to solve it is to take them out of the equation, politically and financially. Make the province bear the burden, fill the holes, bridge the gap etc. Whether they can do without short-changing local needs or otherwise exploiting the resource is another issue with with which to be concerned.

What baffles me is when people take the side of the politicians ("It's not York Region's system"!) rather than the side of the riders who, in my experience, couldn't care less about whether it's a Toronto bus, a Brampton bus, a provincial bus or a horse n buggy from the magical kingdom of Narnia, so long as it stops by their house and ends by their destination. I really don't understand looking at these York U students forced to trek from Pioneer Village and going, "Serves em right! Seems fair to me! That's what those foreign freeloaders get for hopping on our system!"
 
rbt said:
Finch usage is quite poor today too with fewer than 5k walk-ins per day. That station would be considered a design/operations failure in many cities because it requires massive additional bus operations in order to bring passengers to the station, rather than the station/lines being built where the passengers start/end their trips. If you redirected the buses to another service (ideally a rail station within walking distance of the passengers starting location) then Yonge north of Eglingon would be running trains at 10 minute frequencies with seats still available.
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That's not even remotely close to true.

Most other transit properties realize that the bus is a very, very important piece of their total transit picture, and is imperative to solving the "last mile" issue that so many people here simply can't wrap their heads around. Toronto is one of the few places in North America that, as a whole, seems to understand that.

Dan
 
Hmmm.

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From link.

Too bad the students couldn't tap "ON" at Vaughan Metropolitan or Highway 407 Stations and tap "OFF" at Pioneer Village or York University Stations using their PRESTO cards to get a "discount". Otherwise, it would be a full fare.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Too bad the students couldn't tap "ON" at Vaughan Metropolitan or Highway 407 Stations and tap "OFF" at Pioneer Village or York University Stations using their PRESTO cards to get a "discount". Otherwise, it would be a full fare.
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That's certainly a possibility (I seem to recall that there's some special Oyster machines at some locations, for some oddball transfer like scenarios for example, that one can voluntarily tap).

The bigger issue though, is who is going to fund the discount? It shouldn't be TTC/City of Toronto given that most of the ridership is outside the city, and very few of these students likely live in 416. Do Universities even pay municipal tax?
 
In theory, the province should fund it. They should have passed road pricing and other measures to have that pool of funds. But no one (at least not me) is advocating that TTC take a bath on this thing. The province/Metrolinx's job should be to facilitate these things. Functionally, there is no reason Presto can't be used as described as above. If everyone took a step back and took a rider-first look at things, it might be easier to develop solutions but everyone's only worried about their own backyard.
 
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