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SmartTrack (Proposed)

My friend worked for a large Canadian company that shall rename nameless; they basically cleaned house 3 years ago of incompetent managers who did nothing. They all got jobs at Metrolinx.
 
Bordercollie said:
Even look at Bramalea, who in their right mind builds a station with a completely open platform with exposure to the elements expect for a tiny strip over the platform. A simple wall or glass wall to block the wind would be nice. Not to mention some more enclosed waiting areas other than the main building and the end where zum buses load.
There is zero consideration for the people who use the station on a daily basis.

At least the newer TTC stations on the Vaughan extension were constructed with passenger flow in mind to some extent. The architecture is also acceptable, the only issue is the lack of washrooms other than at terminal stations.
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Not to suggest I'm satisfied w/the station designs..........but that's really not the pivot point here for me........its that the price would be excessive on the order of 200% if the stations were far more elaborate.
 
Northern Light said:
Not to suggest I'm satisfied w/the station designs..........but that's really not the pivot point here for me........its that the price would be excessive on the order of 200% if the stations were far more elaborate.
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There should be some neutral third party that evaluates these costs to see if they are in line with market conditions.

But to be fair sometimes it's really hard to forecast a project of this magnitude 2-5 years in the future. Think about it, do you know what the cost of steel and concrete will be in two years? Heck the lighting technology will be totally different by the time the build is complete. Some of these plans were created and budgeted ten years ago (cross town). A lot has changed in that time.
 
Bordercollie said:
There should be some neutral third party that evaluates these costs to see if they are in line with market conditions.
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Sure, but not historically necessary for a host of reasons..........that's a long post............so :I'll leave it at that for now.

Bordercollie said:
But to be fair sometimes it's really hard to forecast a project of this magnitude 2-5 years in the future.
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To a high degree of precision? Sure........but total variances should rarely exceed 20%......we're well outside of that, and starting from a highly suspect base

The cost numbers being arrived at.....................again, I have not seen the breakdown.....yet...............

Do I believe them? In a word, 'No'.........am I saying they're made up? No...... what I'm saying is that the quoted cost is far beyond what makes any sense at all given peer project costs.

Moreover, suburban municipalities have rarely, if ever been billed for their GO Stations.

So, we have a two-fold problem here.........what the bill is; and whose paying it...........and neither makes the least sense to me.
 
Northern Light said:
Sure, but not historically necessary for a host of reasons..........that's a long post............so :I'll leave it at that for now.



To a high degree of precision? Sure........but total variances should rarely exceed 20%......we're well outside of that, and starting from a highly suspect base

The cost numbers being arrived at.....................again, I have not seen the breakdown.....yet...............

Do I believe them? In a word, 'No'.........am I saying they're made up? No...... what I'm saying is that the quoted cost is far beyond what makes any sense at all given peer project costs.

Moreover, suburban municipalities have rarely, if ever been billed for their GO Stations.

So, we have a two-fold problem here.........what the bill is; and whose paying it...........and neither makes the least sense to me.
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Is it possible that MX is purposely throwing up a high number because they want to kaibosh these stations due to having no interest in constructing them?
 
Bojaxs said:
Is it possible that MX is purposely throwing up a high number because they want to kaibosh these stations due to having no interest in constructing them?
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I don't know that to be the case, and honestly, I don't expect that to be the case.

But I think I've made statements that go as far as I'm comfortable going......I will not ascribe motives....
 
This whole thing is an absolute fiasco and an outright joke. The fact that it's going to take ~$300 million/station to build relatively straightforward stations which are no where close to engineering marvels, while taking 10-15+ years each to build is a laughable embarrassment. And we havent even accounted for the standard Metrolinx delay and cost overun premiums which will probably lead these projects to take 20 years to build at ~$400 million/station.

Are the clowns involved in this actually proud of the "work" they are doing?

There's a serious problem the way transit is built in this region, and frankly Metrolinx needs to be either abolished or drastically reformed from head to toe. They are a useless, broken and inept organization that have failed in virtually everything they've done. There's no excuse for this kind of garbage.
 
ShonTron said:
Work has also started at Finch Avenue on the Stouffville Line to build the roadway underpass. So I thought that station (which was to be built as part of that work) was going ahead already.
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I did wonder if some Finch-Kennedy costs (which will benefit car drivers) were assigned to the grade sep. There was reference to the station having an integrated design with the separation, which makes sense, but my recollection is that the only rail Sheppard East LRT project paid for is the bridge the Stouffville line now takes over Sheppard (to the benefit of car drivers)
 
dowlingm said:
I did wonder if some Finch-Kennedy costs (which will benefit car drivers) were assigned to the grade sep. There was reference to the station having an integrated design with the separation, which makes sense, but my recollection is that the only rail Sheppard East LRT project paid for is the bridge the Stouffville line now takes over Sheppard (to the benefit of car drivers)
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The entire road network reconfiguration of St. Clair-Weston is included in the Smart Track budget. So there is definitely some "scope creep" in these projects. Of that $1.6b, probably $2-300 million of it is on the St. Clair area road works.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The entire road network reconfiguration of St. Clair-Weston is included in the Smart Track budget. So there is definitely some "scope creep" in these projects. Of that $1.6b, probably $2-300 million of it is on the St. Clair area road works.
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Secondary costs in each case need to be clearly identified. There's nothing wrong w/pooling them in one contract; but if they aren't strictly necessary to deliver the GO Station then they need to be be costed separately.
 
The road works are necessary in some sense to provide actual access to the station - technically you could build the station without *some* of those roads though, but it just doesn't make sense.

It's sort of like the Broadview Avenue extension for East Harbour as well - At least the underpass component of it is part of the SmartTrack envelope as it runs directly under the station.

The City has tied a lot of work in with the SmartTrack budget that is needed for other reasons and needed to facilitate the SmartTrack Stations, even if not strictly associated with the construction of a train station.

As always with Metrolinx projects it's overly hush-hush so it's hard to even determine what is and isn't included.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The road works are necessary in some sense to provide actual access to the station - technically you could build the station without *some* of those roads though, but it just doesn't make sense.

It's sort of like the Broadview Avenue extension for East Harbour as well - At least the underpass component of it is part of the SmartTrack envelope as it runs directly under the station.

The City has tied a lot of work in with the SmartTrack budget that is needed for other reasons and needed to facilitate the SmartTrack Stations, even if not strictly associated with the construction of a train station.

As always with Metrolinx projects it's overly hush-hush so it's hard to even determine what is and isn't included.
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The last part is the important part. It needs to be more transparent. And there needs to be regulation so Metrolinx cant go and say "oh this project is now costing $500 million for a station, we need to cancel it" when its actually $200 million for the station and $300 million for other things. Its downright lying.
 
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