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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Jon77

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isn't SmartTrack just a section of GO RER? will this section see different trains than the GO ones? I'm new to this proposal so sorry if it's a silly question
 

sche

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isn't SmartTrack just a section of GO RER? will this section see different trains than the GO ones? I'm new to this proposal so sorry if it's a silly question
Yeah, "Smart Track" is basically just a couple of GO stations at this point. The original plan of running separate services was basically a joke.
 

W. K. Lis

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Yeah, "Smart Track" is basically just a couple of GO stations at this point. The original plan of running separate services was basically a joke.

The goal is 15-minute service. 15-minute service is considered "frequent" on some US city "rapid transit" lines.

GOExpansionFBC_v6_0_November2018_750.jpg

GOExpansionFBC_v6_0_November2018-2_750.jpg

From link.
 
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robmausser

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The goal is 15-minute service. 15-minute service is considered "frequent" on some US city "rapid transit" lines.

GOExpansionFBC_v6_0_November2018_750.jpg

GOExpansionFBC_v6_0_November2018-2_750.jpg

From link.

No, stop it with this.

its AT LEAST 15 minutes for off-peak.

Its every 7.5 minutes at some stations and 5 minutes at other stations during on-peak.

Everytime I see this I cringe. Why oh why did Metrolinx say "at least 15 minutes". Such a marketing fail.

It would be like a car company saying "our cars go at least 20 km/h!"
 

afransen

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No, stop it with this.

its AT LEAST 15 minutes for off-peak.

Its every 7.5 minutes at some stations and 5 minutes at other stations during on-peak.

Everytime I see this I cringe. Why oh why did Metrolinx say "at least 15 minutes". Such a marketing fail.

It would be like a car company saying "our cars go at least 20 km/h!"
I consistently fail to find reference to better than 15 minute service on the Metrolinx website. Do you have a good reference to look at? I imagine Lakeshore would be higher frequency.
 

Coolstar

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I consistently fail to find reference to better than 15 minute service on the Metrolinx website. Do you have a good reference to look at? I imagine Lakeshore would be higher frequency.
On Kitchener and Stouffville will you find better than 15 minute service for all core stations. Kitchener between Bramalea and Union is every 10 minutes all-day every-day and Stouffville between Unionville and Union is every 7.5 minutes at-peak and every 10 minutes off-peak. You get closer to the every 5 minutes threshold if you count the further out services stopping at certain stations.

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Source: GO RER Full Buisness Case:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd..._BoardMtg_GO_Expansion_Full_Business_Case.PDF

Page 88 for Kitchener, Page 92 for Stouffville and Pages 79 and 80 for the peak and off-peak concepts.
 

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robmausser

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I'll just repost this here. Again, Tory wasted 7 years of our time with projects that Metrolinx already had in the books. He even decided to be so generous to Metrolinx by offering and putting the city on the hook for 1 of their stations.

Metrolinx must love him dearly.

View attachment 298405

Show me one document from Metrolinx that had them building stations at King/Liberty, St.Clair, Unilever, or Finch East. One.

Metronlinx had just barely started GO RER before John Tory's Smarttrack, it was previously called GO Electrification, and all documentation was focused on stations being added in the 905, and only a "Bathurst North/Spadina" station downtown.

There was 0 interest at Metrolinx in building any of the stations downtown, and it wasn't until after the Smarttrack proposal that the "50 stations analysis" by Metrolinx was procured.

And please don't reply "oh but they would have done it anyways, it would have happened eventually". Such conjecture is rediculous. They might have planned a hyperloop to the moon too. Who knows.

I'm not defending Tory, btw. There was many things wrong with Smarttrack, like that Eglinton West spur. Thank god that didn't happen, and the city is no longer on the hook for funding the Eglinton West LRT extension.

But what we have left is actually good, and I absolutely hate this rewriting of history like Metrolinx was already planning to build these stations and Tory had the city pay for them instead. It never happened, and there is 0 evidence that any of these stations would have been built before the proposal in 2014 during Tory's election campaign.
 

sixrings

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Isnt it rediculous? Their marketing team should be fired.
Maybe they are purposely being obtuse in case the trains run less frequently than they have planned. Less people will be able to point to their marketing and say look at what you liars promised.
 

robmausser

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Maybe they are purposely being obtuse in case the trains run less frequently than they have planned. Less people will be able to point to their marketing and say look at what you liars promised.

Could be, but considering that before the pandemic there were several trains on Lakeshore West GO that ran every 8 minutes during rush hour, having an electrified EMU regional service that couldn't even match what was possible already with existing fleet would be an epic failure no matter what you promised.

If you can't get service to be 7.5 minutes at least during peak hours with GO-RER, I don't even see the point in spending the capital to build it in the first place. 15 minute service is already possible with the existing GO train system.
 

gibsonm

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Smarttrack is a clever use of a stretch of key existing central rail lines to quickly and relatively cheaply build an additional subway-like line. The Smarttrack route benefits from existing switches that allow for trains to transfer between lines where they travel together. The biggest benefit over GO is that ST uses standard TTC fares and allows for transfers to and from the TTC network without having to pay additional fares. That's why the city funded and approved the stations. ST also forces the issue on electrifying that corridor as a priority.

I think everyone agrees that ST is the first major step in RER and a regional distance-based fare structure. Once ST is up and running, finish RER and create the regional zones that maintain a single base fare when traveling within or between two adjacent zones anywhere in the GTHA on any publicly funded transit system, whether GO, TTC. VIVA, Miway, or any other public transit system in the region. Toronto will consist of two zones, so transit patrons will continue to pay only one fare no matter how long the trip within Toronto. That process should be completed within a decade if competence reigns supreme.
 
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sixrings

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Does smart track still use the same ttc fare. I know that was the pitch. But for years that part of the plan was never confirmed and almost brushed over. As of this year is their any current evidence which suggests that smart track will indeed be the same as ttc fare.
 

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