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Sidewalk plowing

Streets with monolithic sidewalks should have its snow removed and dumped at the same time as the snow fall.

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From link.

From link.

...a monolithic sidewalk as a continuous slab of concrete that incorporates both the curb and sidewalk, instead of pouring the cement for them separately.
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Sidewalks that are separated from the roadway by a verge, normally don't have to have their snow removed, except for yesterday's blizzard.
 
crs1026 said:
Until Toronto Fire and EMS start using bicycles, I fully support putting a priority on opening up main road access and leaving the bike lanes for the second pass..

The problem is where to put the snow. It's time for a better strategy that doesn't put the snow where it becomes an obstacle. (I doubt we will go back to dump trucks or the old snow melter truck.... didn't Toronto sell theirs to Buffalo once upon a time?)

Amongst all the complaints yesterday there were some valid examples of things that could be done better. I wonder if the folks running the show were in place last time it snowed this hard... we may be relearning old stuff. The number of transit vehicles that got stuck because the plows didn't deal with bus stops - or even left windrows through the bus bays and turn lanes.

I don't have an easy answer except to say that it's unreasonable to think that we can dig out of a blizzard like yesterday in a matter of hours. I would like to see a standard and metrics that does recognize the need to open sidewalks, bike lanes, and roads in parallel.

- Paul
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I'm cutting them a lot of slack. That much snow in that little time is a once-in-10/15/20+ year occurrence. Getting back to normal within a day or so as with a "regular" snowstorm is just not possible.
 
crs1026 said:
Until Toronto Fire and EMS start using bicycles, I fully support putting a priority on opening up main road access and leaving the bike lanes for the second pass..

The problem is where to put the snow. It's time for a better strategy that doesn't put the snow where it becomes an obstacle. (I doubt we will go back to dump trucks or the old snow melter truck.... didn't Toronto sell theirs to Buffalo once upon a time?)

Amongst all the complaints yesterday there were some valid examples of things that could be done better. I wonder if the folks running the show were in place last time it snowed this hard... we may be relearning old stuff. The number of transit vehicles that got stuck because the plows didn't deal with bus stops - or even left windrows through the bus bays and turn lanes.

I don't have an easy answer except to say that it's unreasonable to think that we can dig out of a blizzard like yesterday in a matter of hours. I would like to see a standard and metrics that does recognize the need to open sidewalks, bike lanes, and roads in parallel.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Given the infrequency of large snowfalls in Toronto, I wouldn't be surprised if each one is a 'first rodeo' for many involved. Even with documented lessons learned sitting on the shelf, when it comes to matters of staffing or equipment, it's up to the elected officials (and ultimately the taxpayer) to decide how much is enough that would otherwise be surplus in 'normal' years. I haven't been watching the coverage breathlessly, but I did see a lot of buses simply being stranded on roadways. As far as I know, the TTC does not equip winter tires, but I'm not sure how much of an benefit they would be, certainly in relation to the cost. Buses and other large vehicles rely on mass and momentum and once either is lost it is very difficult to regain.

As for simultaneously clearing sidewalks and streets, if snow removal -as opposed to clearing - has ever been observed, it progresses in mere metres at a time, and requires a fleet of dump truck, blowers, loaders, etc. Then there is the concentrated environmental impact of dump yards.
 
Toronto used to have one or two or several integrated snow melters, that were mobile, and in teamwork with loaders, would melt cleared snow on site and discharge into the sewer network. I can remember my father talking about them being lent to Buffalo once to assist in coping with some enormous snowfall there.

Once again cost and investment are factors but if the city is going to be serious about surface public transit and better mobility for bicyclists and pedestrians as well, several of these machines would be useful in helping clear and remove the piles of snow within the city's main transit routes as plowing begins to occur. (Do we even have designated snow routes now?) The physical removal of piles of snow is an expensive and time consuming project for both the private and public purses, and from a company point of view the costs of snow removal, and the associated liability of snow removal, is going through the roof.
 
just east of the creek said:
Toronto used to have one or two or several integrated snow melters, that were mobile, and in teamwork with loaders, would melt cleared snow on site and discharge into the sewer network. I can remember my father talking about them being lent to Buffalo once to assist in coping with some enormous snowfall there.

Once again cost and investment are factors but if the city is going to be serious about surface public transit and better mobility for bicyclists and pedestrians as well, several of these machines would be useful in helping clear and remove the piles of snow within the city's main transit routes as plowing begins to occur. (Do we even have designated snow routes now?) The physical removal of piles of snow is an expensive and time consuming project for both the private and public purses, and from a company point of view the costs of snow removal, and the associated liability of snow removal, is going through the roof.
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Fairly certain the City still has some snow melters kicking around. I remember seeing one down on Lake Shore somewhere maybe 5 years ago. I don't think they are mobile trucks like that though, just massive machines which are trucked around on a flatbed trailer.

Edit: found a reddit thread from when said snowmelter was sitting down on Lake Shore when I saw it..

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/2xpqwd
 
I can’t imagine how a snow melter can be justified any longer - unless it’s a Tesla - as the energy consumption and carbon release just isn’t on any more.

I was impressed that the plows (graders, to be specific) that did our street were equipped with a scoop that raised and lowered so that the plow trail was not left across the driveways. That’s a technical step forward, at least.

For commercial districts, snow pretty much has to be removed, or for 4-lane streets the lane closest to the sidewalk simply has to be sacrificed. Plowing sidewalks and bike lanes on commercial streets (like Bloor West for example) is very tricky because there are so many obstacles - planters, hydro and light poles, bike stands, postal boxes etc etc. All the same, I would prioritise getting the snow moved off of the sidewalk/cycle path and into any available street space, even if that removes parking options or reduces traffic to a single lane.

- Paul
 
The city should be removing the snow windrows at corners of intersections and using dump trucks to clear them. Buttonwood Avenue leads from Weston & Jane to West Park Healthcare Centre. West Park provides specialized rehabilitative and complex care after a life‐altering illness or injury such as lung disease, amputation, stroke, and traumatic musculoskeletal injuries. I see patients using walkers or wheelchairs on the sidewalks, except on snow days.

Streets with monolithic sidewalks should have its snow removed and dumped at the same time as the snow fall. The city should start with the intersection corners and transit stops.

My photos...
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crs1026 said:
I can’t imagine how a snow melter can be justified any longer - unless it’s a Tesla - as the energy consumption and carbon release just isn’t on any more.

I was impressed that the plows (graders, to be specific) that did our street were equipped with a scoop that raised and lowered so that the plow trail was not left across the driveways. That’s a technical step forward, at least.

For commercial districts, snow pretty much has to be removed, or for 4-lane streets the lane closest to the sidewalk simply has to be sacrificed. Plowing sidewalks and bike lanes on commercial streets (like Bloor West for example) is very tricky because there are so many obstacles - planters, hydro and light poles, bike stands, postal boxes etc etc. All the same, I would prioritise getting the snow moved off of the sidewalk/cycle path and into any available street space, even if that removes parking options or reduces traffic to a single lane.

- Paul
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I tend to agree. As I recall they were diesel fired. I don't know if they caused any issues with the storm water system, particularly in areas with older combined storm/sanitary trunks. The ones I recall seeing were mobile but I'm not married to that memory. According to Wiki, Toronto has five mobile and one stationary unit but I don't know how up to date that is. For the stationary one, they would need loaders shuttling back and forth which would likely entail closing the road.

That's interesting that they still use hydraulic windrow barriers on the blade. I recall them from my days in North York, but thought they had abandoned the idea.

For people to expect everything to be cleared and back to normal the day after what is potentially a record-setting storm strikes me as a tad unrealistic. Even it is isn't 'the storm of the century', large dumps like this are particularly infrequent, and expecting the infrastructure to be readily on hand is, in my opinion, equally unrealistic. People have been inconvenienced but I haven't heard any reports of anyone being killed or left in dire danger because of it or the city's response.
 
Admiral Beez said:
The city should be plowing sidewalks first, then roads.
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From link.

...after analyzing government services through a process known as “gender-balanced budgeting,” many Swedish cities, including Stockholm, prioritize snow clearance very differently. They now clear walkways and bike paths first, especially those near bus stops and primary schools. Next, they clear local roads, and then, finally, highways.
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We have no sidewalks in Scarborough at the moment. The plows pushed massive piles onto the sidewalks and homeowners are faced with an impossible task. Even teh sidewalk plows can't push through. Snow removal is needed in a lot of areas, but Toronto has never been good at that. Even the "snow route" proclamation was empty. Cars still park along Kingston Road and Queen despite the announcement.
 
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