Shops at Don Mills (redevelopment, Giannone Petricone/Pellow + Associates )

[Epi]

Actually, lots of local folks (me included) do like new "Town Square" feature and I must admit it is pleasure to sit there, smoke cigar, have coffee and see friends.
However it is what it is - shopping centre.

On another note, as I am following this rather intense discussion - it just strikes me as odd that lots of folks think that Canadian winter is something terrible and end of the world like.
I must ask - if they ever ventured anywhere outside of this country during winter (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland or for that matter anywhere in central Europe). If they did, they will realize that there is life outside of the mall - even when weather is not nice.
So folks, if you see white matter falling from the havens - relax - it is just a snow.
In my opinion this is nice addition to the neighborhood.

I think people are pretty aware that in the winter people still go out... I mean all you have to do is go downtown and see people really do walk around in the cold. But I guess the point of contention is that if people are driving to this mall, why wouldn't they drive somewhere warmer and indoors? People downtown are usually walking there in the first place nor are underground malls are prevalent so they have less choice.

 

[Mike in TO]

A skating rink is planned in the town square for the winter as is some other winter programming.

The developers and retailers are well aware of the fact that traffic will be slower in the winter. The strategic plan is that the new redevelopment will attract significant traffic in the spring/summer/early fall and that will more than compensate for slower traffic in the winter. Over a 12 month period the market research and forecasts suggest that $/psf in sales are going to be higher than a traditional indoor mall would have been as well as some local competition.

 

[Homer]

Winter

Something else maybe to consider, apparently a store lives and dies by it's Christmas season sales, if thats true and Don Mills is competing with malls, where would you like to shop especially if you have kids, a mall will have Santa, a big tree and decorations, but so will Don Mills and it will have that feel of a town, plus the skating rink, I would give the edge to Don Mills. During the Christmas shopping season November/December it is not usually bone chilling cold, so if they could do well during the Christmas seasons and have the bonus of heavier traffic during spring/summer they may do alright.

 

[Edward Skira]

Considering the state of the old mall they were already losing out to enclosed places like Fairview. It might be worth it to them to try something different.

 

[TheProfessor]

DMC might also attract shoppers who want to be in and out quickly. In the winter months, trying to find parking at malls like Yorkdale is insane....you'll be walking for a couple of minutes before you get to the entrance.

At DMC, a savvy shopper might be able to simply drive in, park, and visit the desired shops in less time with probably the same amount of exposure to the outdoors.

If it's busy and the parking situation is the same as the enclosed malls, then the point that an outdoor mall in the GTA not doing well during winter months is moot.

 

[Duke-of-East-York]

I was at the Shops at Don Mills today and it was pretty dead. I know it was a somewhat rainy mid-summer Monday and all, but coming straight from Yorkdale (which was insanely busy as usual), there was a major, major change in the number of people.

There's also a lot of vacancies with no "coming soon" signs up. I beginning to think this development has not turned out the way Cadillac Fairview anticipated it would...anyone think the same thing?

The McNally Robinson bookstore was great, I must say!

 

[johnr]

There is very low traffic and most of the stores are always empty. Wonder how long they will last...

 

[alklay]

There is very low traffic and most of the stores are always empty.

And just wait until winter!

 

[slowtyper]

I do really like that outdoor square sitting area. If it becomes a busy area with a lot of people about, I'd love to sit there for an afternoon with a coffee and laptop (do they have wifi?).

If its not busy well...it would be a nice thought.

 

[Solaris]

I do really like that outdoor square sitting area. If it becomes a busy area with a lot of people about, I'd love to sit there for an afternoon with a coffee and laptop (do they have wifi?).

If its not busy well...it would be a nice thought.

It might be good for the person sitting to enjoy cofee and (possibly free) wifi access, but if the area is not busy ... the business equation is not going to work in the "reinvented" Don Mills Centre ~

 

[TheProfessor]

I haven't visited the site during regular working hours, but during evenings and the few week-ends I've gone, it's been quite busy. The restaurants always seem busy and from what I could gather there are a few more still to open (a grill was nearing completion as of a few weeks ago).

I don't think the area is a failure at all, but as others have said, let's see how it does during the colder/snowy months.

 

[Duke-of-East-York]

I haven't visited the site during regular working hours, but during evenings and the few week-ends I've gone, it's been quite busy. The restaurants always seem busy and from what I could gather there are a few more still to open (a grill was nearing completion as of a few weeks ago).

I don't think the area is a failure at all, but as others have said, let's see how it does during the colder/snowy months.

That's good that the Shops at Don Mills is busy on weekends, but comparing it to Yorkdale on the same day during working hours, the volume of people did not just compare. Unless the stores are unique and have just one location in Ontario/GTA (such as Anthropologie, McEwan, and McNally Booksellers) and can thus have an unchallenged draw across the whole city, I don't see the chains/stores with other much busier locations in Toronto (like at Yorkdale) deciding to open a store or wanting to remain open. If sales volumes are starkly lower than that from other locations, stores will likely not renew their leases at Don Mills when they expire. Luckily though, most of the large chains have the cash flow to support these stores in the meantime, and we can hope that once the Shops at Don Mills matures, it will get busier and sales volume will improve and leases will end up being renewed.

I think though with Don Mills it is still too early in the development to evaluate its definite performance. A more fair judgment should be done once the entire development is complete - with the residential component, performance during the winter, and when all of the units are leased. However, as far as it goes right now during "working hours", there is still some reason for concern.

 

[probey]

And one big difference is that Yorkdale has a subway station built-in, and the entire mall is just like a traffic hub.

My friend works downtown even takes subway to Yorkdale during lunch hour

 

[Mustapha]

It's a nice mall. Wife goes to Anthropologie all the time. Funny but there is a fair bit of 'cruising' by owners of more expensive cars. They were driving around and around with their convertible tops down. Some of them were well up in their years - 60s or older - one couple in their old Jaguar, man had a tennis sweater knotted around his neck.

I don't own a high end car so I'm not sure of the psychology behind this.

I've spent a lot of time in outdoor malls in the USA while the wife shops - Easton in Columbus and I-forgot-the-name in San Diego (2 of them) but I do believe they are a proven formula, weather-wise. The one in Columbus is jammed, Yorkdale-style, on winter weekends.

 

[bAuHaUs]

Photo of Easton Town Centre in Columus, OH....looks familiar to DMC.