Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[ehlow]

I don't think you can necessarily make the assumption that failure to endorse the LRT plan for Sheppard in the short term = support for a subway extension. I interpret it as "we need to see how much money we'll be getting from other levels of government for the DRL before we commit to these LRT projects".

That's what I don't understand. A lack of support for LRT does not equate to supporting a subway. He clearly wants to leave it the way it is for now (a bus line). He also clearly wants DRL to be the next subway, he's been abundantly clear about that. There is nothing to indicate that Tory supports a Sheppard E Subway extension. He simply supports not building the LRT, which is not the same thing!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's what I don't understand. A lack of support for LRT does not equate to supporting a subway. He clearly wants to leave it the way it is for now (a bus line). He also clearly wants DRL to be the next subway, he's been abundantly clear about that. There is nothing to indicate that Tory supports a Sheppard E Subway extension. He simply supports not building the LRT, which is not the same thing!

So what will happen if it's left as the BRT it currently is? (190 rocket)

 

[GenerationW]

So what will happen if it's left as the BRT it currently is? (190 rocket)

Nothing.

 

[ehlow]

So what will happen if it's left as the BRT it currently is? (190 rocket)

I don't think anybody would consider what is there currently to be BRT, it's just a normal bus + express bus. This to me is what BRT looks like:

What happens when it's left as is? It continues to operate as a bus line with no improvements I would assume. Perhaps it will get more express bus service or increased service. I don't really know what would happen to Sheppard East if Tory wins & his platform is implemented.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't think anybody would consider what is there currently to be BRT, it's just a normal bus + express bus. This to me is what BRT looks like:

What happens when it's left as is? It continues to operate as a bus line with no improvements I would assume. Perhaps it will get more express bus service or increased service. I don't really know what would happen to Sheppard East if Tory wins & his platform is implemented.

The 190 rocket is mixed traffic BRT. It runs less then 10 minutes, 6 buses (or more most days) per hour. I don't see how that route can be considered regular service. It's well used. That's why there should be LRT.

 

[gweed123]

Like I said the DRL thread, it's already funded man. How long will it take to build Finch, 3 years?

But my point is that he's waiting to see if that funding is needed for the DRL or not. If he can redirect that LRT funding to the DRL if needed, then he wouldn't have to raise taxes in order to pay for it, or not have to raise them nearly as much.

He's basically saying "I know I can pay for these, but I'm going to hold off on buying them in case I need that money to buy something more important."

 

[Voltz]

But my point is that he's waiting to see if that funding is needed for the DRL or not. If he can redirect that LRT funding to the DRL if needed, then he wouldn't have to raise taxes in order to pay for it, or not have to raise them nearly as much.

He's basically saying "I know I can pay for these, but I'm going to hold off on buying them in case I need that money to buy something more important."

If he is at all going to be serious about transit then he is simply going to need more money, sooner or later he is going to run out of other transit lines to cancel to pay for the lines that he does want.

 

[Aylmer]

Maybe this has already been answered, but have they considered converting the Sheppard subway line to underground LRT so that people don't have to transfer twice to get from Sheppard east to Downtown? It could be done in much the same way as Eglinton, I'd imagine.

 

[Edward]

Expensive to do.

 

[Aylmer]

Really? I always figured you'd just need to add the overhead wires, raise the height of the tracks at stations, narrow the gauge of the tracks and possibly rework some of signalling. If it hasn't already been done, I think it might be worth studying at the least.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I believe the Sheppard ECA pegged the conversion cost at $500M. At the end of the day though, the issue isn't just price but optics.

AoD

 

[kEiThZ]

I believe the Sheppard ECA pegged the conversion cost at $500M. At the end of the day though, the issue isn't just price but optics.

AoD

I partly do think it's price. Conversion has been dismissed before as inappropriate because it's a "downgrade" in capacity. Hence, a negative return. People need to understand that conversion absolutely makes sense when the whole corridor is taken into account.

 

[ehlow]

The 190 rocket is mixed traffic BRT. It runs less then 10 minutes, 6 buses (or more most days) per hour. I don't see how that route can be considered regular service. It's well used. That's why there should be LRT.

It's an express bus. It doesn't even have all-door boarding, it's a regular bus where people pay the driver at the front door. It can get stuck in traffic. There aren't even any queue jump lanes or anything from what I understand. As far as I know there's almost no difference between the rocket bus and a normal bus except the stops are further apart.

To me, it doesn't fulfill the standards to be called "rapid transit" or BRT at all. BRT should mean something other than having stops far apart. An express Sheppard bus probably wouldn't even rank on BRT standards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRT_Standard

 

[ehlow]

Expensive to do.

It would also require closing the Sheppard subway for years. And there are 50,000 people who use it per day

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's an express bus. It doesn't even have all-door boarding, it's a regular bus where people pay the driver at the front door. It can get stuck in traffic. There aren't even any queue jump lanes or anything from what I understand. As far as I know there's almost no difference between the rocket bus and a normal bus except the stops are further apart.

To me, it doesn't fulfill the standards to be called "rapid transit" or BRT at all. BRT should mean something other than having stops far apart. An express Sheppard bus probably wouldn't even rank on BRT standards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRT_Standard

What makes you think BRT does not get stuck in traffic. Here in NA they do. Even VIVA gets stuck in traffic, with the queue lanes.