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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

afransen said:
Municipalities are just legal fictions employed by the province as convenience. If the province were to consider granting Toronto sweeping powers, it would really only make sense as an organization fr the GTA. That said, Queens Park is already basically the regional government for Toronto. I don't see them conceding much power in this regard. I think Ontario will become more like the UK where it is all about London.
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London has devolved regional governance. Toronto is at the whim of the province.

Only the City of Toronto has an average density vaguely close to London. Just Toronto alone is already 40% the landmass of Greater London. I don't know what stats can classifies as "Urban" versus "Metro", but that "Urban" area would be more spot-on size wise. (Way less dense though of course.)

I guess anything before the greenbelt.
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There probably needs to be some sort of GTA/GTHA governance so that the region can plan as a unit. (As well as Waterloo and Niagara Regions)
 
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LemonCondo said:
London has devolved regional governance. Toronto is at the whim of the province.

Only the City of Toronto has an average density vaguely close to London. Just Toronto alone is already 40% the landmass of Greater London. I don't know what stats can classifies as "Urban" versus "Metro", but that "Urban" area would be more spot-on size wise. (Way less dense though of course.)

I guess anything before the greenbelt.
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View attachment 421982
There probably needs to be some sort of GTA/GTHA governance so that the region can plan as a unit. (As well as Waterloo and Niagara Regions)
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On a further note, if the GTA (just the GTA) was the same average density as Greater London, we could practically fit the whole country in here! (That includes the green belt though so that's kind of a joke.)

If we planned as a region and grew all these places very smartly and had great transit, we could house so many more people then we currently do.
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LemonCondo said:
On a further note, if the GTA (just the GTA) was the same average density as Greater London, we could practically fit the whole country in here! (That includes the green belt though so that's kind of a joke.)

If we planned as a region and grew all these places very smartly and had great transit, we could house so many more people then we currently do. View attachment 421983
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The official population projection that the province uses for the GGH might please you............

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That's 14.875 Million in the Greater Golden Horseshoe by 2051.
 
LemonCondo said:
In the "Greater Golden Horseshoe" is a concerning statement. That means sprawl.
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Some sprawl is baked into those projections, yes, but none of that growth is in the Greenbelt.

You can see from the numbers where the growth is projected to occur.

Roughly 75% is within the core areas (Toronto, Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York and Durham.) Some of that is greenfield development, but the majority is not.

Of the balance, it looks to be around 65% urban, 35% rural. (or about 400,000 rural).

To be clear, I'd rather we not do the rural bit; and I'd rather we did less or no greenfield development within the GTHA too.

I should add, I oppose new or expanded 400-series highways within the GGH as part of promoting sustainable development.

I'm simply pointing out that much of the growth will occur within the already urbanized area. But more would be better. (I'm also open to less growth to achieve this, mind you)
 
Northern Light said:
Some sprawl is baked into those projections, yes, but none of that growth is in the Greenbelt.

You can see from the numbers where the growth is projected to occur.

Roughly 75% is within the core areas (Toronto, Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York and Durham.) Some of that is greenfield development, but the majority is not.

Of the balance, it looks to be around 65% urban, 35% rural. (or about 400,000 rural).

To be clear, I'd rather we not do the rural bit; and I'd rather we did less or no greenfield development within the GTHA too.

I should add, I oppose new or expanded 400-series highways within the GGH as part of promoting sustainable development.

I'm simply pointing out that much of the growth will occur within the already urbanized area. But more would be better. (I'm also open to less growth to achieve this, mind you)
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It all comes down to two things. A) Greatly expanded transit, and B) Regional planning to grow smart in the whole region and connect it together!

(And what I mean by transit is.... trains, it's ALWAYS trains...)
 
There also doesn't seem to be any movement from John Tory or city council on this extension given the upcoming municipal election.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
Ugh. I think I’m going to regret saying this, but the BD/Shepard loop has been growing on me. If the plan remains to stay on Shepard, through routing Shepard trains south (to STC) using the slots opened by BD short turns at Kennedy solves a lot of the complaints about connectivity lost by not going south.
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It would make sense to loop from union to Sheppard west to Sheppard west and loop back again. This would be the southern route. When the northern route is completed it can loop around at major Mackenzie.
 
steviej1 said:
There also doesn't seem to be any movement from John Tory or city council on this extension given the upcoming municipal election.
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I think a Sheppard East extension will be announced about a decade from now ... a late 2030s/early 2040s completion. I'm just talking right out of my [censored], but $40 billion for the 4 projects + GO RER will take most transit funding in the province for the next 10-15 years, with Hamilton, Ottawa, and K-W taking whatever is left.
 
The province can spend however it sees fit. I had mentioned that the province could do many major transit projects at once and people had said it's too much money and there isn't capacity yet here we are. It's a choice.
 
DirectionNorth said:
I think a Sheppard East extension will be announced about a decade from now ... a late 2030s/early 2040s completion. I'm just talking right out of my [censored], but $40 billion for the 4 projects + GO RER will take most transit funding in the province for the next 10-15 years, with Hamilton, Ottawa, and K-W taking whatever is left.
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We can't afford to wait until the current batch of projects to finish/close to finish before annoucing the next batch.
 
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