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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

Northern Light said:
I'd love to hear how this works from a firecode - evacuation capacity standpoint. I assume their are also stairs, but given great depth, how fast can people exit? Also is there a secondary stair well lest the principal path be obstructed?

Otherwise, I have an open mind on this method.
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Aren't the new TYSSE stations like 7 stories underground already though? Deep stations are hardly a new phenomenon to the TTC.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Not sure about this particular case, but this is how MTR dealt with the issue at the HKU Station:

https://www.checkerboardhill.com/2015/04/lift-only-mtr-station-entrances/

AoD
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The MTR lifts almost always have an extremely long lineup during commute hours. The line literally extends to the other exit (about 500 metres). I don’t think elevator only exits are a good idea for any high volume subway station. They just don’t work as well as the traditional escalator + stairs combo. There are some videos in Cantonese about the inefficient elevator only exits.
 
applepill said:
The MTR lifts almost always have an extremely long lineup during commute hours. The line literally extends to the other exit (about 500 metres). I don’t think elevator only exits are a good idea for any high volume subway station. They just don’t work as well as the traditional escalator + stairs combo. There are some videos in Cantonese about the inefficient elevator only exits.
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Sure, the question is how many potential stations do we have that would match what MTR has to deal with?

AoD
 
For a station like Willowdale, I don't see why elevators couldn't be used. Ridership would only be around 7,500 PPD. Not terrible, but not outstanding. It would definitely help the stubway.
Also: Ridership outlook for anyone interested:

 
TheTigerMaster said:
I wonder how much Sheppard East extension ridership increases with the presence of the DRL
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If one misses a train, it would be a 2 ½ minute wait (during rush hour, 5 minutes outside of the peak hours). Except there is also the time spent walking (or running) from one train to the other (platform, stairs/escalator, passages, etc.). Better to stay on the train should they want to get off in the vicinity of their destination. That's should the DRL and Sheppard East (and West) join up as one, for better or worse.
 
Would it make sense for the Sheppard subway to start at U Of T Scarbrough, go along Ellesmere Rd towards the Scarborough Town Centre, head towards Brimley Rd & Shepperd, and have the subway connect to Sheppard West Station?

After that, the subway could be extended to Keele and Finch. It could run under Finch to Humber College. it could then go south along highway 27, west on Rexdale Blvd, then south on Airport Rd toward Pearson airport.

It would connect Pearson Airport, Woodbine Casino, Humber College, York University, CF Fairview Mall, The Scarborough Town center, and U OF T Scarbrough. It would also be close to the Toronto Zoo.
 
FW36 said:
Would it make sense for the Sheppard subway to start at U Of T Scarbrough, go along Ellesmere Rd towards the Scarborough Town Centre, head towards Brimley Rd & Shepperd, and have the subway connect to Sheppard West Station?

After that, the subway could be extended to Keele and Finch. It could run under Finch to Humber College. it could then go south along highway 27, west on Rexdale Blvd, then south on Airport Rd toward Pearson airport.

It would connect Pearson Airport, Woodbine Casino, Humber College, York University, CF Fairview Mall, The Scarborough Town center, and U OF T Scarbrough. It would also be close to the Toronto Zoo.
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It would be decent for beyond 40-60 years, but the density currently isn't there to warrant tunneling. However, with the city running out of space, the corridor will eventually make sense for underground transit. If it could be built at grade, it would seem like a no-brainer.
 
Streety McCarface said:
It would be decent for beyond 40-60 years, but the density currently isn't there to warrant tunneling. However, with the city running out of space, the corridor will eventually make sense for underground transit. If it could be built at grade, it would seem like a no-brainer.
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All destinations east of McCowan can easily be adressed with express bus, BRT, or LRT for a long time to come. The subway ending at SCC makes sense for the next 50+ years and the BRT on Ellesmere will zip residents to Centenary hospital, Centennial (Morningside) or UTSC. Even in mixed traffic its a low volume stretch currently going to and from SCC to UTSC, when the time comes in the future give it its own lane. West of McCowan areas like Agincourt and SCC will boom and its short sighted not to build the subway when we invest in transit for these locations.

I like Torys plan if they get the Lawrence stop back in the SSE in as it allows Sheppard to be looped by subway and the remainder of Sheppard or Finch to be looped by LRT to UTSC as well. Politically a subway past McCowan is a non starter between many Downtown politicians, associated special interest groups and Scarborough residential noise NIMBYS from the neighborhoods along Ellesmere fighting subway at grade its a complete non starter.
 
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FW36 said:
Would it make sense for the Sheppard subway to start at U Of T Scarbrough, go along Ellesmere Rd towards the Scarborough Town Centre, head towards Brimley Rd & Shepperd, and have the subway connect to Sheppard West Station?

After that, the subway could be extended to Keele and Finch. It could run under Finch to Humber College. it could then go south along highway 27, west on Rexdale Blvd, then south on Airport Rd toward Pearson airport.

It would connect Pearson Airport, Woodbine Casino, Humber College, York University, CF Fairview Mall, The Scarborough Town center, and U OF T Scarbrough. It would also be close to the Toronto Zoo.
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That's an interesting suggestion, but I'd change two aspects:

1) Would consider changing the type of trains, to something smaller and with less imposing footprint, to reduce the construction costs. If we expect this line to never exceed 15,000 or 20,000 pphpd, there is little reason to spend money on infrastructure capable of carrying 35,000 or 40,000. Still fully grade-separated for speed, with wide station spacng, but not as expensive per km.

2) Don't really like to send it to Finch. The chance to share the TYSSE tunnel between Line 2 and Line 4 is gone. TYSSE could have been built with such sharing enabled, but it wasn't, and now it would be too expensive to connect Line 4. Thus, we would have to duplicate TYSSE and the Line 4 tracks going north-west in the same area, which is kind of low-density even for one subway line. Plus, the Line 4 extension would take decades to plan and fund, while Finch West LRT is nearly shovel-ready and I wouldn't want to stop it now.

Instead, I would connect Line 4 to the Spadina line at Wilson rather than at Sheppard West (former Downsview), then extend it further west along Wilson. West of Jane, it could swing to the 401 corridor and fast-track to Pearson (connecting to the Etobicoke North RER station en route).

That would be a faster connection to Pearson than going via Finch and Humber college. The northern route would be served by Finch LRT, while the Sheppard-Wilson crosstown line would fill the gap between Eglinton and Finch.
 
Rainforest said:
That's an interesting suggestion, but I'd change two aspects:

1) Would consider changing the type of trains, to something smaller and with less imposing footprint, to reduce the construction costs. If we expect this line to never exceed 15,000 or 20,000 pphpd, there is little reason to spend money on infrastructure capable of carrying 35,000 or 40,000. Still fully grade-separated for speed, with wide station spacng, but not as expensive per km.

2) Don't really like to send it to Finch. The chance to share the TYSSE tunnel between Line 2 and Line 4 is gone. TYSSE could have been built with such sharing enabled, but it wasn't, and now it would be too expensive to connect Line 4. Thus, we would have to duplicate TYSSE and the Line 4 tracks going north-west in the same area, which is kind of low-density even for one subway line. Plus, the Line 4 extension would take decades to plan and fund, while Finch West LRT is nearly shovel-ready and I wouldn't want to stop it now.

Instead, I would connect Line 4 to the Spadina line at Wilson rather than at Sheppard West (former Downsview), then extend it further west along Wilson. West of Jane, it could swing to the 401 corridor and fast-track to Pearson (connecting to the Etobicoke North RER station en route).

That would be a faster connection to Pearson than going via Finch and Humber college. The northern route would be served by Finch LRT, while the Sheppard-Wilson crosstown line would fill the gap between Eglinton and Finch.
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I like your thoughts about connecting Line 4 to Wilson station:). Having an interchange at Wilson makes a lot of sense for a few ways. First of all construction would be less disruptive to Line 1 at Wilson since it has lower passenger numbers than Shepppard West and also Wilson station which has been operating for 40 years without a major renovation is coming due to major renovations and easier access elevator upgrades before 2025. So an upgrade to the existing Wilson Station and brand new infrastructure to create a new underground Line 4 platform level. The other is that Wilson is located in close proximity to a whole bunch of new condos along Wilson and Allen Road. it is also near the Downsview Bombardier lands which I heard that are planning to be sold to developers.
 
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