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Shabby Public Realm

Can we ban back-lit ads and store names in the city? I've never been to a city that uses them quite as heavily as Toronto, and frankly they are a crime to public realm.

W Queen W and King E are the areas where I've seen them used the least, and they are in my opinion the most charming parts of the city as a result. The Annex, Yonge, and Danforth on the other hand, look incredibly shabby.
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Creative store front treatments are generally the result of creative businesses, and cheap, generic store front treatments are generally a result of uncreative businesses. I don't think "banning" them is the solution. Since this generally a result of cheap rent, I think the gentrification process takes care of this problem to a large degree. And this is really no different than any other city....just that their gentrification may be more pronounced.

And remember, with gentrification comes both desirable and undesirable consequences. Luckily for Toronto, the gentrification process has not excluded the average person from still living here, because you can lament about the gentrification of Paris, London and Manhattan all you want, but it's unlikely you are ever going to be able to afford to live there to enjoy it.

No matter what city you look at, something always has to give, and we need to stop wasting energy on this myopic view of focussing solely on what had to give in Toronto and nothing to what didn't, while focussing totally on what didn't have to give elsewhere, and nothing on what did.
 
They are banned in many places, though. Allowing people to butcher the storefronts of buildings has a negative psychological effect on the people who are walking through those streets, and insults the sensitivity of many. Toronto used to not have these before, and streets looked better because of it. Part of making the city more pedestrian friendly is enforcing the creation of spaces that don't visually pollute public spaces.

I also don't think it's particularly cheap. As I see it store owners take advantage of it because everyone else is doing it and they feel that by having the most obnoxious sign they'll get noticed. This is how it works in many asian cities, but what ends up happening is that in the end there's so much noise that the effect is the same as if no one was doing it.

The City of Toronto already has a facade improvement program, but I believe banning new installations of backlit signs would be a step in the right direction.
 
I'm all for facade improvements, but I certainly am not in favour of policies that promote uniform street fronts. Condo retail usually has them, and they're often some of the most bleak streetscapes in the city. The rare successful condo retail, like 10 Bellair, has nice broken up street fronts.
 
I'm all for facade improvements, but I certainly am not in favour of policies that promote uniform street fronts. Condo retail usually has them, and they're often some of the most bleak streetscapes in the city.
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Yea...I'd say there are many things that contribute to the odds of having better commercial street fronts, but the single, most important ones are narrower properties with individual ownership. That's why Toronto's coolest looking commercial streetscapes, with the coolest stores, are almost exclusively victorian or early 20th century streetscapes.


I believe banning new installations of backlit signs would be a step in the right direction.
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I agree they suck. A bigger problem for me is the whole retrofitted cheap aluminum windows and doors on vintage buildings. That's much more ubiquitous...they all look like 7-11 storefronts to me. People go to great lengths to restore victorian buildings, but the ground floors are nothing but 7-11 entrances. You have to go to places like the Junction to see what original victorian/deco era storefronts look like, as a lot of them are still intact. And I have seen very successful conversions back to something that looks original to the building.

But replacing window and doors is something of a maintenance necessity issue for most, rather than a design/architectural integrity thing, and tend to be done as cheaply as possible. I agree...if doing it doesn't happen because people reach the conclusion that they are making a wise investment in their own assets, then perhaps they have to be forced into it by bylaws.
 
I think we should have a strict rule about back-lit signs: if you're not open, you have to turn it off! Also tax them or something, they're offensive and cheap looking. remember the green one on Bohemian embassy...at least they didn't put the name on it, now THAT would be tacky.
 
Freshcutgrass, you mention all of those new parks and projects that Toronto has recently renovated or built. But in just a few short years or less most of them will look like all the other formerly beautiful things (like the fountains on Uni) that the city has built in the past due to lack of long term maintenance. H20 already looks shabby for example and it's only a few years old.
 
Register123 said:
Freshcutgrass, you mention all of those new parks and projects that Toronto has recently renovated or built. But in just a few short years or less most of them will look like all the other formerly beautiful things (like the fountains on Uni) that the city has built in the past due to lack of long term maintenance. H20 already looks shabby for example and it's only a few years old.
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Speaking of shabby parks, I was just at Canoe Landing recently, and I noticed that the white benches, beside the red canoe, are in terrible shape. (after only 1 year) It's clear the skate boarders did a number on these benches because the white paint is scraped off all the edges and there are dents everywhere. My issue is, if we know that skate boarders are gonna do this to any new benches that go in, why are we not putting in benches that are more durable? Painted metal is probably the worst choice because once the paint is scratched off, it looks terrible. There must be better materials we can use than pained metal. Those benches need to be replaced. Why was this not anticipated in the first place, as it seems to happen to all our benches?
 
If HTO and scratched paint on a bench are being used as evidence of a shabby public realm, then I'm going to have to sit this one out. To quote a Woody Allen line....I'm "wanted back on the planet Earth".
 
Register123 said:
Freshcutgrass, you mention all of those new parks and projects that Toronto has recently renovated or built. But in just a few short years or less most of them will look like all the other formerly beautiful things (like the fountains on Uni) that the city has built in the past due to lack of long term maintenance. H20 already looks shabby for example and it's only a few years old.
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Absolutely correct Register! Then again, Fresh finds the Brickworks to be exemplary of the state of the public realm in Toronto. How do you argue with that line of thinking??
 
Tewder said:
Thanks for proving my point so soon, you saved me a lot of time. As I already posited, when it isn't outright apathy on the part of hosers it's the 'sensible shoes (with holes) are good enough' approach you advocate that explains the squalid look of Toronto streets.

Look, sadly there will always be homeless people among us, and people among us needy of many other things too, but the idea that you can 'cure' these problems by throwing every last cent at them is simply naive... and not only naive but wasteful because now not only do we still have social problems but we also have a shameful public realm. Nobody here wins.
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Here here. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
^^Wow, blast from the past. A renewed opportunity for Tewder to answer what he meant by this post if not that he is advocating for reducing public expenditures on social programs and redirecting those funds to improving the public realm.
 
Grimace, you are trolling. We've had this conversation many times. Have a nice read if you want to 'refresh' your understanding of my position.
 
Maybe I'm the only one here but I like Toronto's griminess and mashed-up feel. It gives it character and is one of my favourite things about the place. There might be fine line between "shabby" (what I would call interestingly grimy) and rundown and, if there is, I think Toronto is on the right side of it and always has been. Kinda reminds me of my ex-girlfriend. I really liked her. Stay the course, fair city....you'll always be beautiful to me.
 
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