None yet. But that is because we need to develop a plan first before we start going to Councillors and the like to advocate for it. 1 step at a time.
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saveoursubways (SOS)
- Thread starter kEiThZ
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None yet. But that is because we need to develop a plan first before we start going to Councillors and the like to advocate for it. 1 step at a time.
nfitz
Superstar
Which is eminently reasonable!
kEiThZ
Superstar
I dunno if we need to be that detailed in our proposals. Your proposal is detail that can be finessed. Our map should be clear. It needs to show a Jane BRT. And it needs to show the Eglinton subway meeting it. Simple as that. Whether that happens at Jane station or a Mount Dennis station is not all that relevant at this stage. I do think it's a good proposal. Just not detail we need to include at this stage though. We're just trying to nail down the corridors and the priority at which they'll get built at this stage.
It's a minor line item in the budget and will probably get done well before anything happens on Jane (unless we succeed and BRT starts getting built soon!).
kEiThZ
Superstar
I am going to suggest that Eglinton West should be moved up to Phase 1. Can we save a few km of subway by shortening the Yonge extension to Steeles for Phase 1? Is that a sensible decision?
I would support that, although I would actually be inclined to swap the Sheppard extension instead of the Yonge extension. The plan we have is very east-centred (DRL, Sheppard, and B-D), so naturally it would suggest that dropping one of those would be the logical choice. DRL and B-D are not really options (for urgent need for 1 reason or another), so that leaves Sheppard. The main reason why it's a priority for us now is because of the SELRT.
What does everyone think? Yonge wouldn't happen until after the DRL is built anyway, so it would be in the 2nd half of the 15 year plan.
Dan416
Senior Member
That would be like cutting off the Bloor line at Sherway, so I wouldn't support it. Steeles is an arbitrary boundary. I wish Torontonians weren't so 416-centric. Long ago we were all 416ers.
Cheaper is all relative though. We need to be as close to the projected TC budget in the 15 year plan as we can. It's a big selling point to be able to say "this plan will cost nothing more than what you've already approved". Every billion extra we ask for reduces the likelihood of it being considered.
I honestly think Sheppard East could work with BRT until the next round of subway construction is underway. It was good enough for a permanent transfer in TC, so why not a temporary transfer in our plan? I realize it's not ideal, but in the political reality, we need to balance east and west.
Dan416
Senior Member
Sheppard East was never finished though, which is why I believe its important to stress finishing it now. And the Danforth line has the stupid transfer at Kennedy, so that needs to be eliminated too. I don't like focussing on the east, but the fact of the matter is that's where those two mistakes exist, and they need to be rectified now, not later.
The thing is, we need all these extensions yesterday. This is barely keeping up with current demand, never mind future demand.
I don't disagree with your logic at all. It's not my preference to chop those either. But we need to remember, the Eglinton West subway was never finished either...
Yonge extension needs to proceed because beyond Steeles, it's being funded by York Region, so really we're only paying for a 2 station extension. That's a relatively small investment for a pretty big leap forward in transit.
Again, it's not my preference, but when you look at the pecking order in terms of subways in Toronto (not including Spadina and Yonge, as the majority of those lines are outside Toronto), Sheppard is the lowest on the pecking order in the 15 year plan. It's not like STC won't be getting subway service if Sheppard isn't built right away.
Dan416
Senior Member
The thing is, the Eglinton West line that was cancelled would be fully served by just building the planned Eglinton Crosstown LRT as Subway instead. I could be wrong though. The Eglinton West subway was never very long, IIRC. Does anyone have Eglinton West subway planning document PDFs?
It was from Eglinton West station to Martin Grove. So roughly the same length as the central section that we have planned today.
kEiThZ
Superstar
CC,
It's not that I have some odd distaste for the 905. Eglinton West after all would benefit Mississauga quite a bit. I am just wondering if we need to build something in the West, when there's so much focus on the East in the first round. I see an opportunity here to scale back the Yonge extension a bit, to help chip in for the Eglinton West extension. Steeles to me is a logical place to end, not because of the fair boundary, but because ridership north of steeles can be handled by VIVA's BRT till a subway extension comes in.
Anyway, I am ambivalent on the idea. I'd like to see the Yonge extension built in one piece to RHC. However, I just though I'd throw the idea out there.
It's not that I have some odd distaste for the 905. Eglinton West after all would benefit Mississauga quite a bit. I am just wondering if we need to build something in the West, when there's so much focus on the East in the first round. I see an opportunity here to scale back the Yonge extension a bit, to help chip in for the Eglinton West extension. Steeles to me is a logical place to end, not because of the fair boundary, but because ridership north of steeles can be handled by VIVA's BRT till a subway extension comes in.
Anyway, I am ambivalent on the idea. I'd like to see the Yonge extension built in one piece to RHC. However, I just though I'd throw the idea out there.
Dan416
Senior Member
I think everyone is overestimating the importance of an Eglinton subway for Mississauga, especially if its going to the Airport. Yeah sure it'll technically be in Mississauga if it's in the airport, but people in Mississauga don't live anywhere near the aiport (minus Malton, and how accessible would the Airport station be for them anyway?)
If you want to appease Mississauga, the extension to MCC is the way to do it. To appease Etobicoke, a subway to Sherway would do it. So to appease the West End, you need only the Bloor extension to MCC, no one in the West End cares about a subway to the airport.
Ending it at Steeles is pointless, considering the fact that York Region is paying for the subway north of Steeles anyways, so it makes no difference if we "chop that part" or not, because capitally it is costing Toronto nothing anyways.
I still think that if we're going to chop anything in favour of Eglinton West, it should be Sheppard East. B-D to STC, as well as Ellesmere, Malvern, Kingston, and Sheppard East BRTs can sustain Scarborough until the money for Sheppard is available. That's already much more than other areas are getting.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Totally agree here, and it should happen somehow.
Don't agree much with this. The best way to appease Etobicoke would be the relatively inexpensive Eglinton West subway, and I think that the Bloor extension to Sherway would appease a small demographic of Etobicoke, but definitely not as much as Eglinton would. Not only would Eglinton west appeal to many people in Etobicoke, but it'd also have a lot of appeal to people that could connect with Eglinton from the YUS and take a quick subway ride to the airport, which I imagine could involve a large number of people between Bloor and Finch, and Don Mills to Martin Grove.
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