Sammy Yatim Shooting

[typezed]

and still you think this kid is an angel?

If you care to look back, I said a couple days ago that the kid is no angel. I'm not going to be carrying pictures of him through the streets, or declaring that it looks like he was going to be a promising citizen. There was one of those articles in the Star that talked about how he had plans to go to college, get his life back on track. And I think, well he blew any notion of getting his life on track when he pulled a knife on a streetcar, didn't he? Cop just finalized that. Really, I wish we had a lot fewer people on our streets who were wannabee badasses, a lot fewer people who think they need to push the rules or get in the face of "the man". And I certainly don't want those people, with their aggressive and anti-social attitudes, handed guns and the authority to tell the rest of us what to do.

As to killer cop there are big checkmarks on my list beside "Made threat to kill if subject stepped forward", "Shot someone standing twenty feet away after making threat" and "Continued to shoot victim six times after he was laying on the floor bleeding". That as a cop in a photo he looks like an aggressive full-of-himself knob just gives me hints that he's the type of person that wouldn't be welcomed on a less insular, more community focused police force. I said compare and contrast with the kid's photos because in someways they're two sides of a coin.

I don't think he's 24. Star article says he was in Grade 12 in 1999. At which time he was a football player starting up a gym with a friend.

 

[EMP1729]

I'm friends with a retried officer, (who never fired a bullet in his 30 years as a T.O cop) Is also wondering why TAC wasn't called in?

The Montreal Police seems to know how to deal with these situations without using deadly force. Toronto Police take note!

20-hour Montreal police standoff ends after SWAT team reportedly moves in, rubber bullets fired

Well, the suspect is a 71 year old retired professor. I'm sure that played a role in letting the guy cool-off for 20 hours.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, the guy has a gun too I might add.

AoD

 

[EMP1729]

Well, the guy has a gun too I might add.

AoD

Yes you are right. However, he did fire towards the police and injure a cop (minor injury though), yet the police did not find the need to use deadly force.

 

[picard102]

Clearly.

You should probably try reading, rather then just copy pasting anything with the word police.

 

[Marko]

You should probably try reading, rather then just copy pasting anything with the word police.

Yeah, I'm not sure that list helped make the case vox thinks it did.

A) There are several accounts in there that show no wrongdoing by the police at all (ie: being called to an incident with scissors - so what?)

B) It also shows that there have been many instances of police officers being charged with criminal offenses, and not simply getting off scott free as has been previously implied.

Leaves me scratching my head as to what was supposed to be accomplished with that list, prove that the police are frequently in the news? Big surprise.
Proves that there is occasionally misconduct? OK, it happens with every single police force in existence.
Proves that the police have to deal with all manner of extreme or ridiculous circumstances? Yes, so their job isn't always easy.

Also, that list goes back to at least 2009, so we're talking about a 5 year span (and probably more). Things are going to happen and the longer period you choose to look, the longer the list is going to be. So what?

I'm not in any way excusing the cop. He lost his shit, needlessly killed someone and should be charged with manslaughter - but that list?

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Well, the guy has a gun too I might add.

AoD

He had 182 guns in the house

 

[typezed]

Why are you so quick to judge a cop.... Does that mean Cst. Forcillo was justified in shooting Sammy 9 times? Probably not, however I'm waiting until I know all the facts before I decide if this Constable is out of line or not. Its not blind defence of the police, it the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

There was an editorial in the Globe that took this same line. Despite what you common people see in the video, we need to wait until all the facts are known before making any judgment, it said. When exactly will all these facts be out? After the lawyers and the police union get involved in shaping the story? After some inquiry where all the professional associations come forward looking to carve some new responsibilities for their members? The mayor of this city appears to have had some personal dealings with drug dealers. Big story. How successful so far have our journalists, experts and authorities been at sorting out the facts on that story? How many public officials seem to be acting on that story out of an unbiased quest for the truth? I'm not a court of law, I'm allowed to make judgments based on a combination of my experiences and what I see and read. If more information comes along at a later date that contradicts what I thought I'm willing to change my mind.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It lists OMERS under salary and benefits. Is part of their salary deducted to go into the pension plan? How much does the government contribute on top of that? I do have a problem with someone earning $100k/year in wages, with benefits and a DB pension on top of that, who only has 6 years experience. Even if they are a police officer "risking their life every minute of every day".

It doesn't mean the salary is wrong per se, it could just be that things need to change so we stop requiring officers for so many overtime activities. It's not worth the cost.

We do so many people vilify those who are making a "survivable" living wage? $100K with overtime and good benefits is really nothing special. However, as CEO's get richer on our backs, good paying jobs continue to disappear along with wages of the masses continuing to decline (along with benefit reductions), I suspect there's simply a level of jealously at play here.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

We do so many people vilify those who are making a "survivable" living wage? $100K with overtime and good benefits is really nothing special. However, as CEO's get richer on our backs, good paying jobs continue to disappear along with wages of the masses continuing to decline (along with benefit reductions), I suspect there's simply a level of jealously at play here.

Look over there!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc

 

[James]

*sigh* There will be no winners or happy endings in this case. Both Sammy Yatim and Constable James Forcillo lose in the end.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Yeah, I'm not sure that list helped make the case vox thinks it did.

A) There are several accounts in there that show no wrongdoing by the police at all (ie: being called to an incident with scissors - so what?)

B) It also shows that there have been many instances of police officers being charged with criminal offenses, and not simply getting off scott free as has been previously implied.

Leaves me scratching my head as to what was supposed to be accomplished with that list, prove that the police are frequently in the news? Big surprise.
Proves that there is occasionally misconduct? OK, it happens with every single police force in existence.
Proves that the police have to deal with all manner of extreme or ridiculous circumstances? Yes, so their job isn't always easy.

Also, that list goes back to at least 2009, so we're talking about a 5 year span (and probably more). Things are going to happen and the longer period you choose to look, the longer the list is going to be. So what?

I'm not in any way excusing the cop. He lost his shit, needlessly killed someone and should be charged with manslaughter - but that list?

The list demonstrates that one doesn't need to look very hard to find dozens of recent examples of police criminality and other misconduct, which to my mind is good evidence of "an endless series" of such events. You apparently believe the TPS doesn't have a governance problem. If you're inclined to dismiss something ab initio, then I have a feeling there's no amount of data that will change your mind.

 

[typezed]

Whether you view police as being paid fairly or excessively, do you believe we're getting our money's worth? When someone gets shot nine times and then tasered? You dt_toronto_geek mentioned earlier that you were surprised by the actions of many of the police in the video. Watch this one showing the aftermath as officers who neither seem to be controlling the crowd or dealing with the body walk repeatedly through the crime scene, even kicking shell casings.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you care to look back, I said a couple days ago that the kid is no angel. I'm not going to be carrying pictures of him through the streets, or declaring that it looks like he was going to be a promising citizen.

None of this should be relevant. In fact, we should judge the quality and values and morality of any justice system on how it treats those we don't like.

Unless the threat of immediate serious harm or death was evident, there was no reason to use leathal force, no matter if the guy was a saint or a gold toothed gangsta.

 

[M.R.Victor]

Just for reference, here's the expect police response in dicey situations. You can judge for yourselves whether you feel that protocol was followed