Rob Ford's Toronto

[Cooper]

Ya I spoke with Del Grande once about what it was like working with Rob. He says he contributed very little. He just lets others run things for him while he's off doing who knows what but then takes credit for other people's achievements.

So true. I wish the media would stop saying "Rob did this" or "Rob did that." The fact is, he did little, if anything at all. Stuff just happened when he was around. The ideas may have been roughly in line with his own desires, but that's only because of appointments he made. He did little in terms of shaping the outcomes or leading policy. Can you imagine what mess there would have been if he actually did the work? The plastic bag fee is a perfect example. He went in to council looking to drop the fee and came out with a total on the bags themselves! Not a bad decision, IMO, but it sure created a lot of work for the people who had to back pedal.

 

[John_Dee]

I don't think it's the facts that trouble him. I think the most important thing to Rob is to avoid punishment. He does whatever occurs to him at the immediate moment that seems like it will avoid or defer the punishment. But if there's no threat of punishment right in front of him he can't help himself from doing and saying stupid things. That's why he (for example) occasionally makes formal apologies even though he isn't super super super sorry -- and immediately before and after churlishly demonstrates that he didn't want to apologize at all. And why he tries to lie about not being at the Air Canada Centre, etc.

This is probably accurate enough as far as it goes, but I've noticed over the years that with people like Ford, saving face is everything. His kind tend to be prideful creatures; they don't like being wrong, but more so, they really don't like being perceived as being wrong, i.e. losing. Worst of all is looking stupid. They try to avoid that at all costs, which is almost certainly why the Fords fight tooth and nail over the least little things and lie about petty shit that they don't have to lie about. Big or little, important or unimportant, it's all one to them. They simply cannot allow a perceived slight to go by unchallenged.

This is one of the things that really strikes a chord with their fanbase, IMO.

I wonder if the doctor's letter said something to the effect that Ford was probably fit to testify now but he would perform better by September - less likely to get tired/confused? If the truth is that he will probably get worse by September, then they're stalling until he can't testify at all ...

And if his health does improve by September, you can bet the Fords will pull some other sleazy trick to have Slob wriggle out of testifying then. And whatever figure of authority is in charge of that decision will simply stand by and let them get away with it. Again. Sigh.

 

[the lemur]

So true. I wish the media would stop saying "Rob did this" or "Rob did that." The fact is, he did little, if anything at all. Stuff just happened when he was around. The ideas may have been roughly in line with his own desires, but that's only because of appointments he made. He did little in terms of shaping the outcomes or leading policy. Can you imagine what mess there would have been if he actually did the work? The plastic bag fee is a perfect example. He went in to council looking to drop the fee and came out with a total on the bags themselves! Not a bad decision, IMO, but it sure created a lot of work for the people who had to back pedal.

It's even more infuriating when FN says Rob did this or that, because they truly believe things that didn't even happen. 'Kept my taxes low' - would have required little effort. 'Lowered my taxes' - didn't happen. 'Built the Scarborough subway (which I will never ride anyway)' - not at all certain. He didn't even follow up on most of the things he talked up during his first mayoral campaign, because he had zero interest in the details. Reduce council by 1/2? At what cost? With what organizational consequences? Replace streetcars with buses? To what extent? At what expense?

And then there was his habit of taking credit for things as mayor that he voted against, or didn't vote on, as a councillor.

 

[the lemur]

This is probably accurate enough as far as it goes, but I've noticed over the years that with people like Ford, saving face is everything. His kind tend to be prideful creatures; they don't like being wrong, but more so, they really don't like being perceived as being wrong, i.e. losing. Worst of all is looking stupid. They try to avoid that at all costs, which is almost certainly why the Fords fight tooth and nail over the least little things and lie about petty shit that they don't have to lie about. Big or little, important or unimportant, it's all one to them. They simply cannot allow a perceived slight to go by unchallenged.

Well said.

And if his health does improve by September, you can bet the Fords will pull some other sleazy trick to have Slob wriggle out of testifying then. And whatever figure of authority is in charge of that decision will simply stand by and let them get away with it. Again. Sigh.

I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to simply disappear if he didn't happen to be in worse health by then, or dead.

 

[Lamport Davenport]

There have also been times when Rob -- or Doug -- have (inadvertently, naturally) said something stupid or boorish, and just as they're waiting for the brickbats to come flying back, FN somehow applauds.

That must make anybody feel they're magic.

 

[riffraff]

But surely the fact that he might not even be alive come September should have played some role in the decision to let him slither off the hook for testifying now. If Ford was in truly bad shape right now, fine, let him abstain. But he's obviously, manifestly, demonstrably well enough to take the witness stand. Openly lah-de-dah-ing in an Easter parade with his devoted fanbase mere days ago is proof enough of that.

Nevermind the Easter jaunt. How about Robbie just showing up at the scene of a double shooting and being allowed into the cordoned off area by the cops to "Check if the victim, Ahmed Siyad, was OK" just a couple of weeks ago? The cops didn't know Robbie was subpoenaed to appear at Lisi's prelim with the victim's brother. They believed he was doing constituency work!

Good bye Chief Blair, and good riddance. The G20 was a disgrace to this city and an offence against justice. Carding is a disgrace to this city, and an offence against justice. Enabling Crackscandal Burgermeister? I guess Blair and Giroux will have a lot to reminisce about.

 

[pud99]

 

[Cooper]

So, who among us would be OK with seeing Sandro discharged in exchange for being able to publish the evidence? If Rob had testified, I'd be tempted to take that deal.

 

[animatronic]

So, who among us would be OK with seeing Sandro discharged in exchange for being able to publish the evidence? If Rob had testified, I'd be tempted to take that deal.

Better to take it to trial so that he has more incentive to roll over.

 

[Forgotten]

Does anyone think that Rob Ford actually has some kind of death wish? Like, he *knows* he's effed up in just so many ways, and he's running out of parachutes--could he be actually seeing his own cancer-ridden mortality as a lucky-break opportunity to give all those who wronged him (not just in politics, but perhaps even going back to his childhood--his own family, even) their just desserts?

Even in his days as Councillor, I felt there was just something so *chillingly ominous* about him--maybe because of his explosive behaviour being compounded by his physical resemblance to Ralph Hadley, whose Pickering murder-suicide in 2000 was one of the more chilling microcosms of domestic violence the GTA's ever seen. (Actually, Hadley looked more like Doug; but back then, we didn't really know Doug--let's just say, he looked "Ford-like".)

It's almost like if we had a US-style freedom-to-bear-arms culture, I could see pre-2010 Councillor Rob going berzerk with a rifle on Council before turning the rifle on himself.

This is just about the hundredth time you've posted your bizarre death wish suicide fantasy theory here. I'd say the Mayor's alleged behaviour isn't what's chillingly ominous in this room. Besides, it's pretty disingenuous and hypocrisy for you to be commenting on the Mayor's alleged explosive behaviour considering what happened to you in the main sub-forum a few weeks back. Projecting much?

 

[YPQ]

So, who among us would be OK with seeing Sandro discharged in exchange for being able to publish the evidence? If Rob had testified, I'd be tempted to take that deal.

Well, it is tempting for sure but we've all waited this long already, a little longer won't kill us. Rob, on the other hand, well it might. The thing is, I want to see Rob on the stand, under oath shredded, cornered and forced by a competent attorney into saying incriminating things. I think it would be worth the wait.

 

[Videodrome]

Jennifer Pagliaro ‏@jpags 11s11 seconds ago
Rob Ford's friend & former driver Sandro Lisi has been committed to stand trial for extortion to get the crack video. Date to be set later.

Jennifer Pagliaro ‏@jpags 29s29 seconds ago
That means any evidence that was heard at this preliminary hearing is still under a publication ban - for now.

Jennifer Pagliaro ‏@jpags 1m1 minute ago
When trial does start, any evidence presented there will be publishable. When the trial ends, I can tell you what happened at the prelim.

Jennifer Pagliaro ‏@jpags 13s13 seconds ago
The people who have now seen this evidence remains to be several reporters, court officers, lawyers, a judge and a class of students.

Jennifer Pagliaro ‏@jpags 49s50 seconds ago
Crown asked earlier that prelim be adjourned to September, but that request now withdrawn. So, preliminary hearing is now officially over.

That is that.

 

[whatthe]

Well, it is tempting for sure but we've all waited this long already, a little longer won't kill us. Rob, on the other hand, well it might. The thing is, I want to see Rob on the stand, under oath shredded, cornered and forced by a competent attorney into saying incriminating things. I think it would be worth the wait.

Agree. And wish granted - it's going to trial.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Agree. And wish granted - it's going to trial.

So I presume that all means they had enough evidence that they didn't need [the person who was allegedly going to testify who allegedly couldn't do it until Sept for alleged health reasons] and therefore didn't want to wait. I also presume none of this precludes [the same alleged person] from being called to testify in said trial. Just as well he has some time to rest up and then when he does hit the stand it will be in the spotlight of a trial without having "practiced" at the hearing.

I picture the next few months of lawyers trying to rehearse this oh-so-mysterious witness being like FBI trying to teach Homer Simpson his witness protection alias.

[video=youtube;4U0AqxlxfBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U0AqxlxfBs[/video]

(We've already heard all the ALLEGED stories; I, like most here, will happily trade waiting for a trial for having found out today what was discussed while Lisi goes free; especially without You-Know-who's testimony. I wanna see the video like anyone else but it's no contest at this point.)

 

[Kilroy]

I'm not sure how easily a perjury charge is handed down to someone on the stand but I would imagine that lawyers would do their best to get the truth out of Ford.
For example:
Did you have breakfast this morning?
No, I didn't.
But we have a photo of you at the kitchen table.
Ooooh wait, now that I think about it a bit more, yes I did have breakfast.

Is that committing perjury? Technically he did lie but then he recanted.

More like.....

"I did not understand that it was breakfast when I was eating it."