Rob Ford's Toronto

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And yet it isn't like services are maintained as they were before no? You are misconstructing the backlash against service cuts with the general dislike of real and perceived perks for workers. It isn't like all the proposed cuts to the latter is keeping service level as is. Since when did gravy become real service cuts?

AoD

 

[js97]

Well, we'll see right? there hasn't been any service cuts yet... most of these cuts are proposed cuts, we'll see what happens no?

A real solution would be the left asking its union members to take on 'Rae' days, or temporary pay/benefit cuts... but that's not going to happen.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Semantics, unless money does indeed grow on trees. Not like the left need to do that considering the mayors own VSP and ASD. Different process, same intended impact on the bottom line, no?

 

[Anth]

Yoga classes at libraries are irrelevant to any serious budgeting discussion.

It's not library yoga classes specifically; they're symptomatic of a wider death-by-a-thousand-cuts entitlement problem. And I'm not saying Toronto needs austerity measures; I'm saying that we'd be wise in this economy to proactively streamline things to avoid a more painful situation where we may not get to choose. Btw I appreciate your reasoned response.

Tens maybe hundreds of thousands of people pass over TTC facilities every day, don't fares need to be collected and stations cleaned?

Of course, but:

Fare collection can be almost completely automated and has been in most other major cities.

Why can't janitorial services be outsourced? Same goes for non-specialized office IT. Do they really need to be city employees?

 

[js97]

Maybe ALL city workers should 'give back' to their great employer with a $500 deduction on their pay cheque, over the period of a year. That will probably get them out of their shortfall.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Anth:

But why count out tax increase (which in the case of the tax freeze actually translate into a tax reduction)/new revenue sources as part of the solution? There is a need to run government services efficiently and not to raise taxes on a whim, but there is also the need to recognize that you need serious money to deal with issues that aren't going to go away - e.g. public transit and infrastructure, especially in cases where private delivery in whole has little merit. Not doing so isn't eliminating entitlement - it is trading expediency for future headaches.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You can cut cost in a number of different sort of ways (layoffs, Rae Days, paycuts, etc) but the fact of the matter is that it can only take you so far before there is an impact on service provision.

By your example, assuming 50k city employees, $500/staff only nets you $25M. Rob Ford math doesn't get you $25M = $500M. You'd have to cut a lot more.

AoD

 

[Anth]

Agree with you completely, AoD.

It mainly bothers me that a lot of people don't want to recognize that Ford's much-derided 'gravy' does in fact exist and that it isn't fair to simply raise taxes when honest hard-nosed attempts aren't being made to run the city in a more cost-effective way. It's easy to protest and ridicule the mayor, but it's much harder to find someone willing to put themselves out there and do the dirty work necessary.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Maybe ALL city workers should 'give back' to their great employer with a $500 deduction on their pay cheque, over the period of a year. That will probably get them out of their shortfall.

I get that you're mad at unions, but labour negotiation isn't simple. The Miller administration tried to eliminate the sick bank for public workers, and ended up with a forty day strike that cost him a ton of popularity and contributed to his desire to leave politics.

Just because Rob Ford is also angry at unions doesn't mean he's going to be able to magically rein in labour costs. In fact, without a coordinated strategy and any attempt to build positive relationships with the union heads, he's likely to just make the situation worse. He's already handed the police union their largest pay increase in years and is set to do the same thing with the TTC in the months ahead, thanks to his short-sighted desire to designate transit an essential service.

And 'the left' certainly isn't synonymous with 'unions.'

 

[js97]

Well, maybe they need larger concessions than $500 dollars...

Maybe a $5000 pay cut is in order, that will net you 250 Million... and based on salaries I've seen, it's a measily 7% pay cut.

There are also a lot of grants given by the city that essentially benefit a very few committee members of local special interest group. Most of them have way too much time on their hands. And at the end of the day, they are used to help re-elect the local councillor

I'm not saying we should make up the entire difference through cuts, but there needs to be some sort of 'belt' tightening.

Maybe UT members should hold a fundraiser to a targeted service they do not want to see cut.... 'adopt a street' car route... hey, If the entire 72 % of the surveryed where okay with increasing taxes, I'm sure they'll be happy to pitch in...

 

[js97]

I get that you're mad at unions, but labour negotiation isn't simple. The Miller administration tried to eliminate the sick bank for public workers, and ended up with a forty day strike that cost him a ton of popularity and contributed to his desire to leave politics.

Just because Rob Ford is also angry at unions doesn't mean he's going to be able to magically rein in labour costs. In fact, without a coordinated strategy and any attempt to build positive relationships with the union heads, he's likely to just make the situation worse. He's already handed the police union their largest pay increase in years and is set to do the same thing with the TTC in the months ahead, thanks to his short-sighted desire to designate transit an essential service.

And 'the left' certainly isn't synonymous with 'unions.'

You're right, unfortunately I don't think Ford has the 'nuanced' approach that is required to negotiate any sort of settlement. Rossi still would have been the best Mayor... lol!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Anth:

The problem is Ford isn't eliminating the gravy - he is basically engaging in what is a slash and burn, across the board 10% cut without a clear understanding of what the impact of such cuts are. This methodology does nothing to improve efficiency and everything do make it worse. Besides, those consultants doesn't exactly comes cheap.

AoD

 

[Marko]

If you read the question, it's just vague enough to get a much more favorable answer - reminds of the Quebec referendum.

The first two questions are clear and not really debatable. The city's opinion of him has clearly dropped.

The third question asked and answers given don't exactly state the same thing that is being stated by the article, that the city is vehemently opposed to any cuts.

Q: How much do you agree that your councilor should vote in the in the interest of protection of city services in your community, even if it conflicts with the wished of mayor Ford?

A: You elect your councilor to represent his ward, so the answer should theoretically be 100%.

The question was asked whether the councillor was supposed to consider his ward first or the mayor's wishes. Of course the answer should be the ward regardless of who is mayor or what is going on - so the numbers in that answer don't really support the other two questions one way or the other.

 

[Anth]

AoD:

I agree it's not the best approach. I'm still hoping Ford will prove to be useful on the balance in breaking the grip special interests have on the city, but politicians like him definitely are double-edged swords. I also suspect ham-fisted solutions would be less likely if he didn't get so much unfair hostility from the media and establishment.

 

[neubilder]

AoD:

I agree it's not the best approach. I'm still hoping Ford will prove to be useful on the balance in breaking the grip special interests have on the city, but politicians like him definitely are double-edged swords. I also suspect ham-fisted solutions would be less likely if he didn't get so much unfair hostility from the media and establishment.

That was well earned hostility against Ford.