Rob Ford's Toronto

[Gavin]

@goldsbie Jonathan Goldsbie
Doug Ford pulled out of the Matlow show but told him he might come on next week depending on how Josh votes on the Port Lands.

@goldsbie Jonathan Goldsbie
When Josh asked, "Are you serious? I don't horse trade," Doug Ford responded, "Everybody does. Everybody has their price."

@goldsbie Jonathan Goldsbie
To recap: Doug Ford tried to buy Matlow's vote on the waterfront in an unethical, immoral, and possibly even illegal manner.

.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Oh it gets better - from http://twitter.com/#!/goldsbie

Ken Greenberg's wife is executive assistant to Adam Vaughan, says Doug Ford. Hahhahahahaha. No.

Doug Ford also asserted that calls to talk-radio shows constitute adequate and meaningful public consultation.

Vaughan says the Fords also once accused his ea, Ange Kinnear, of being married to TTC union president Bob Kinnear.

So I guess now I know what he meant when he said there will be public consultation to the kahoots.

AoD

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The only thing I'll add that I think is kind of ironic is that the LGBT community that already hated Rob Ford before he announced he wasn't going to attend, was even madder when he wouldn't come to their party. Which raises the rather obvious question... why are you upset that someone you hate isn't coming to your event?

Many of those who are informed in the LGBT community were put off by Ford based on ridiculous comments he'd made in the past as a City Councillor, so he didn't get a lot of their votes as he was already off on a bad foot. Some were unhappy that he didn't make the parade, others unhappy that he refused to walk from his office into Nathan Phillips Square to read the Mayor's Official Proclamation. That included me, I could have cared less if he showed up at a parade. His payback for all the negative media he got over this (and, his apparent ignorance of the community) will be to cut funds to Pride next year, along with other cultural festivals and events.

 

[spider]

Are you saying they are deleting questions with unfavorable results,

Yes

polls with unfavorable results

Yes

or individuals in the population with unfavorable results

If you mean all the answers from an individual in a given poll, Yes
This is not called lying, this is called selecting.

The poll questions seem clear enough to me

Both questions? Or are there more questions to judge for impartiality that I haven't seen.

 

[EnviroTO]

If you mean all the answers from an individual in a given poll, Yes
This is not called lying, this is called selecting.

No, removing individuals from a poll because you don't like how they answered would be a fraudulent poll. The only legitimate way you can remove a population from a poll is to specifically exclude a group (i.e. release the results as a poll of people from within the 416 only, a poll of people between the ages of 26 and 35, etc.).

Both questions? Or are there more questions to judge for impartiality that I haven't seen.

The other questions are irrelevant since knowing those questions wouldn't change the results of the ones shown. Even in the unlikely event of the other question being "who is the best mayor or all time" and the answer being "Ford 80%" it doesn't change the fact people would not elect him again and they don't want their councillors to be mayoral puppets.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Draft report w/ the questions:

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acrobat/a5/1c/455dc7e44363b816b20e2fe63eb4.pdf

The clincher is the question on who the polled voted for - if you see a massive variance from the results of the election then the sampling could have been an issue. Wasn't the case here. Why should one be surprised to see voters react to guarantees being broken? He was elected to eliminate waste, not to cut services. If you think this is bad, wait till the effects for the cuts (say, TTC rush) hits home.

AoD

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think at least one of the questions -- the last one, about service cuts -- is leading enough to make the results questionable, but spider's allegations would seem to border on libellous. Pollsters don't falsify data.

 

[jje1000]

pollsters don't falsify data.

There's a conspiracy out there!

Of course, spider is the same person who does doesn't think that TTC figures are correct.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, the quality of TTC figures can vary widely. Wouldn't compare apples with oranges in this case.

Speaking of which, the fallout from DF's unscheduled appearance on the Josh Matlow show:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...sed-of-horse-trading-for-port-lands-vote?bn=1

AoD

 

[spider]

Where to start - - -
I have identified myself in the past as a supporter of the Ford program, I voted for him warts and all and could be happier at this point in time. Some of his opponents (some say sore losers) seem to have abandoned most of their powers of reasoning in their post election rages. My advice is to get over it and prepare for the next election as did many who couldn’t abide Millers regime.

As to the recent Poll results let me ask the believers if they would be so accepting of the conclusions had they found the Ford administration to be doing a reasonable job.

The “draft” offered is a link to a draft of the conclusions of the poll, not a list of the questions.
If the Poll was conducted in a random manner by a robo- phone as claimed,
How do they know the respondents were of the age requested?
How do they know which ward a respondent lived in?
How do they know the respondent even voted in the election?

I also have a problem with a question that asks:
More than one half of Toronto voters say their opinion of Mayor Ford has
“grown worse” since the municipal election
This terminology assumes that more than half of Toronto voters had a bad opinion of Mayor Ford at election time. We don’t know what their opinion of Rob Ford was at election time, maybe some liked him but liked Pantalone better.

I would like to see the other questions and so should you.

 

[Danielinthecity]

OH MAN!

This guy is a real freakin lunatic! I really hope that councillors pull together and stop these idiots before it's too late.

 

[jje1000]

Here are the questions and answers.

1. “How has your opinion of Mayor Ford changed since the election?”
Improved: 17%
Hasn’t changed: 29%
Grown worse: 54%

2. “If an election was held tomorrow, would you vote for Rob Ford for mayor?”
Yes: 27%
No: 60%
Don’t know: 13%


3. “How much do you agree that your councillor should vote in the interests of protecting city services in your community, even if it conflicts with the wishes of Mayor Ford?”
Overall agree: 77% (59% say they “strongly agree;” 18% say they “agree”).
Overall disagree: 14% (“strongly disagree, 5%; disagree 9%).
Don’t know: 9%.

4. “Who did you vote for in the last election?”
Ford 46% (the election results were 47%)
Smitherman 34% (the election results were 36%)
Pantalone 14% (the election results were 12%)

Raw draft of report:
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acrobat/a5/1c/455dc7e44363b816b20e2fe63eb4.pdf

Raw data that breaks down it down by ward:
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acrobat/5d/cb/500c2bed458c81494021ae77c018.pdf

The “draft” offered is a link to a draft of the conclusions of the poll, not a list of the questions.
If the Poll was conducted in a random manner by a robo- phone as claimed,
How do they know the respondents were of the age requested?
How do they know which ward a respondent lived in?
How do they know the respondent even voted in the election?

Robo-calls likely also ask about the user's age, location, and election choice.

I also have a problem with a question that asks:
More than one half of Toronto voters say their opinion of Mayor Ford has
“grown worse” since the municipal election
This terminology assumes that more than half of Toronto voters had a bad opinion of Mayor Ford at election time. We don’t know what their opinion of Rob Ford was at election time, maybe some liked him but liked Pantalone better.

No, it doesn't assume anything. It's basically asking whether you like him more or less regardless of your current opinion of him.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

spider:

Actually, most of us were accepting of previous polls with outcomes that were positive, warts and all. I don't think any of us saw each and every question that was asked either. As to his mayoralty, we'll just have to see how council goes, don't we? As to losing one's ability to reason - well, you'd have to ask those who cut revenue and then complain about expenditure what their "reasoning" is.

If the Poll was conducted in a random manner by a robo- phone as claimed,
How do they know the respondents were of the age requested?
How do they know which ward a respondent lived in?
How do they know the respondent even voted in the election?

Random does not equate to not having questions that collect demographic data on the respondent. Besides, robo call or otherwise, you'd still face the issue of having no way of knowing whether a respondent actually voted. Or whether they lied or told the truth when they gave out answers.

More than one half of Toronto voters say their opinion of Mayor Ford has “grown worse” since the municipal election

Actually the statement posits nothing and does not require us to know what their opinion of Rob Ford is at the time - it doesn't prelude someone having a positive opinion of Ford (or having voted for him) having a lesser opinion of him now. In fact it went on to stratify the sample and claim that among those who voted for Ford, the figure is 28%.

AoD

 

[adma]

My advice is to get over it and prepare for the next election as did many who couldn’t abide Millers regime.

Spider: as long as we keep being confronted by things like today's Doug Ford CFRB outburst, for you to still say "get over it" has all the sensitivity of Pat Robertson's views on Alzheimer's.

 

[Torontovibe]

The only thing I'll add that I think is kind of ironic is that the LGBT community that already hated Rob Ford before he announced he wasn't going to attend, was even madder when he wouldn't come to their party. Which raises the rather obvious question... why are you upset that someone you hate isn't coming to your event?

Are you really that clueless? If that's the case, you'll never get it, so why waste time.