Rob Ford's Toronto

[tkip]

Faulty reasoning. Do drivers licenses stop motorists from breaking traffic laws? The amount of money being made from ticketing would suggest no.

This means licensing/ticketing cyclists wouldn't work either. People today want to do whatever they want regardless of the rules. Cyclists are no different. And I've seen so many drivers go through red lights these days it's almost the norm. People's attitudes and behaviors have changed drastically in the past few years and not in a good way.

Back to Ford.

I was having this chat with a friend on sat and she said that Ford's mentality towards the city is running it and all services like a business. But she also stated that many services can't and shouldn't be approached like a business model because they serve a population and can't be treated like a for-profit approach. Transit is the most obvious example of this. Ford doesn't understand this.

 

[jje1000]

I was having this chat with a friend on sat and she said that Ford's mentality towards the city is running it and all services like a business. But she also stated that many services can't and shouldn't be approached like a business model because they serve a population and can't be treated like a for-profit approach. Transit is the most obvious example of this. Ford doesn't understand this.

That's what everyone's been saying all this time.

 

[brockm]

Well it all boils down to, if you have done nothing wrong, why would you not give an authority your proper name.
All i know from experience is that even if you havent done wrong, but by mistake walked into a crime scene..you better hand them your personal info or your going into the slammer.

Whenever police ask me for my information, as they did twice during the G20, I immediately ask them: "am I legally required to give you my ID?" -- if they say "yes", I then ask them "what law requires that I provide you my ID?"

As a general rule, I do not volunteer any information to the police under any circumstances.

It is, in fact, NOT true that you're required to identify yourself to police under penalty of law in Canada. An exception is when crossing the border, or when driving a car. But the latter is only to prove you are a licensed driver.

As a pedestrian, I do not have to carry government ID, or tell the police who I am under any circumstances. Including if they detain or arrest me. In such cases they may prosecute me as "John Doe", but under section 11(c) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in no circumstances must I be compelled to be a witness against myself. Including providing the police with any material information about my own identity. Nor do I have to identify myself in a court of law, under that same Charter protection and under the rules of evidence. But it may behoove me to do so.

That said, the refusal to provide police with information -- any information -- cannot be used in a court of law to bring prejudice against you. The assertion of the right against self-incrimination is a constitutionally protected right, and any attempt by police or the prosecution to use it against you at trial would be a breach of the rules of evidence and your constitutional rights. Thus, you actually have NOTHING to gain by volunteering evidence to the police.

It scares me that so many people like yourself assume that police have more power than they actually do. This is the reason why police get away with serious rights violations.

 

[CanadianNational]

Please let's get back to debating Ford as Mayor of Toronto. Has anybody nothing to say about the potentially explosive game changer that some councillors are considering the possibility of blocking Ford out of being Mayor?

^ Now THAT would be interesting.
It wouldn't be without solid reason behind it.

Most politicians make enough promises that if a few get broken here and there, there's still enough left over to fulfill to make people grudgingly satisfied. Sad, but true.
I remember Miller's first, greatest disappointment - about cancelling the island airport bridge. He balked on it, then tried to word his way around it. Something along the lines of, "I said no bridge, not no island airport, or other link..." or somesuch. Everyone knew "no bridge" meant "no island airport". That was a big disappointment, and signalled that he wasn't going to be impervious to screwing up and compromising on his promises. Happily, he had plenty of other good things going on that over the course of his term helped ameliorate that disappointment.

Ford only had one promise, and one message. Since it's been broken over and over again already, from multiple means and directions - couldn't a relatively simple case be made that he has been truly elected under false pretenses? That he misled the public? They're not the same thing, but they could be two sides of the same fake coin.

 

[GenerationW]

But to keep things in perspective, it is motorists that cause 99% of the accidents, injuries, deaths and property damage on the road.

To really keep things in perspective, it would be helpful to know how many recipients of those accidents, injuries, deaths and property damage are also motorists/vehicles.

 

[TonyV]

Please let's get back to debating Ford as Mayor of Toronto. Has anybody nothing to say about the potentially explosive game changer that some councillors are considering the possibility of blocking Ford out of being Mayor?

Yes, MetroMan, I have something to say about that possibility -- it is exactly what I am watching for. And it may indeed be happening. Ford is a ghastly politician when it comes to alliances and I can well imagine him simply alienating himself. And that will be a good end for all.

 

[allabootmatt]

When was that news? Did I miss something?

 

[tkip]

That's what everyone's been saying all this time.

Well, some of you went a little bit further and made some.... comments using strong language about his appearance, his personality, his traits, his background, etc.

 

[doug]

Well, some of you went a little bit further and made some.... comments using strong language about his appearance, his personality, his traits, his background, etc.

...says the hypocrite who insults anyone who doesn't agree with him.

 

[Bruvyman]

...says the hypocrite who insults anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to Kettle.

 

[Torontovibe]

...says the hypocrite who insults anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Ain't that always the case.


One good thing about the Ford situation is, there are a lot of people talking about politics, who never used to. My brother, who never talks about politics or even bothers to vote, went on and on about Ford last night. He predicts everyone will eventually turn on Ford like they did Harris. It takes a lot to motivate my apathetic bro to show any interest in political matters but Ford is doing it. I agree with my brother, it's just a matter of time.

 

[Fish&Chips]

Cutting Ford Out

While we don't have recall legislation in this city, I asked a councillor that night what he thought of council shutting Ford out.

Off the record, he said it's a real possibility as we approach the 2012 budget. They'd need to have 2/3rds of council voting against Ford and taking over the Exec Committee to effectively run the city while completely ignoring and bypassing the Mayor.

It may end up that concessions are made and councillors aligned with Ford compromise this time, but if Ford continues to be as combative and dictatorial like, most of council will turn against him before the 2013 budget. At most, Ford has 2 years as Mayor and 2 years whining that nobody is listening to him.

MetroMan

This scenario is entirely plausable. In fact, I think it's happening sooner than I expected. Remember, very few members of executive committee are dim-witted enough to be true believers in the Rob Ford agenda. Most are just spineless opportunists. (Possibly one falls into both categories. Ciao Coun ____).

I remember a conversation I had with one councillor (who is now a member of the exec.) a few weeks before the last election. Councillor ____ told me that he/she thought the city would come to its senses before electing Rob Ford its mayor. What a shock to see her/him edorse Rob Ford for mayor a few weeks later. The same thing happened with other members of council who were facing strong challengers from the right. Even deputy mayor Holiday did not endorse Rob Ford until it was obvious he was going to win. The opportunists will start to distance themselves from RF as soon as they calculate that the political costs outweigh the benefits.

 

[thepatrickblack]

Ain't that always the case.


One good thing about the Ford situation is, there are a lot of people talking about politics, who never used to.

Rob was on the cover of McClean's a few months back. The Ford bros are making international headlines, notably Doug's 'Who's Margaret Atwood?' stuff made it into British newspapers.

I like that people are talking about politics too but I wonder if all the attention plays into their narrative of them against the world. Rob is always playing the victim.

 

[MetroMan]

MetroMan

This scenario is entirely plausable. In fact, I think it's happening sooner than I expected.

It may already be happening. One member of the exec committee is likely stepping down in disagreement if Ford proceeds with cutting libraries. This is information buzzing around the offices of City Hall, so other connected UT members may have been hearing this in the last week too. I only know of one, though nearly all of the exec committee disagrees strongly with one cut or another because their constituents are enraged by the possibility. I'd be surprised if the executive committee survives through the 2012 budget deliberations.

 

[TonyV]

This is fabulous. Atwood speaks ...

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-are-people-like-me-welcome-in-this-city?bn=1


Atwood asks: ‘Are people like me welcome in this city?’


Canadian literary icon Margaret Atwood has widened the library debate, accusing Mayor Rob Ford of waging a war on creative Torontonians that risks the city losing festivals and even conventions.

In an interview with the Star on Tuesday, Atwood said Ford’s refusal to take library cuts off the table — after his councillor brother Doug said he wants to close branches — and apparent eagerness to eliminate arts grants and festival funding are part of a pattern with financial risks for the city.

“Expressing contempt for creative people turns people away from Toronto as a venue, and that’s a pretty serious consideration. If you’re thinking of having a convention, you’re thinking of having a concert, you’re thinking of going to a festival, and that’s the attitude? Why wouldn’t you spend your dollars somewhere else,†Atwood said.

“You start with tossing off latte drinkers, gay Pride and bicycle riders and me, what’s the message? The message is: ‘We don’t want you people here.’ I’m sure Hamilton or Burlington or Oshawa would be very happy if some of those festivals and conventions moved there. Why shouldn’t I spend my creative dollar in New York if I’m not welcome in Toronto?

“My question to the council would be: ‘Are people like me welcome in this city?’â€

After consultant KPMG suggested Toronto could save money by shrinking the “footprint†of the 99-branch library system, among hundreds of other suggestions in the city’s core services review, Atwood retweeted a request for people to sign an online petition to protect the libraries.

Her legion of Twitter followers crashed the petition’s server, and a war of words erupted between the author and Councillor Doug Ford. In poking fun at “Twin Fordmayor(s)â€, Atwood has become an icon of opposition to the mayor’s push to end “non-core†spending.

“The hero of all this is not me and the issue is not me. I can’t emphasize that enough,†Atwood said. “The hero is the people of Toronto and the issue is libraries . . . If people had not felt very strongly about their libraries and also about the fact that you do not have to be elected to express an opinion – not in a democracy – then nothing would have happened.â€

Atwood was busy writing, “in the woods, without electricity,†last week when the spat generated headlines across Canada, particularly Doug Ford’s statement: “I don’t even know her. If she walked by me, I wouldn’t have a clue who she is,†and his retraction the next day.

She caught up on events Sunday, marvelling at the 22-hour executive committee meeting days earlier where more than 160 deputants opposed suggested cuts. Many invoked the author’s name; some spectators even donned Atwood masks.

The author, whose previous activism has focused primarily on human rights issues, said she has faith in Torontonians to let their councillors know they oppose library cuts, and that politicians risk their political futures by agreeing with Doug Ford.

The issue has taken on a life of its own online, including a fan who used photo manipulation software to parody Atwood book covers for the Fords, turning Surfacing into “Touchdown.â€

But one YouTube user, Canadaguy2210, posted a video of a burning copy of Surfacing, with a message accusing her of “a pathetic left wing attempt to garner some limelight and maybe sell a few books.â€

“I encourage people everywhere to clean out yor Atwood collection. Burn them, throw them out — heck, maybe the library wants them,†Canadaguy wrote.

Mayor Rob Ford’s office did not respond to the Star’s request for comment.