News   Jul 17, 2024
 438     0 
News   Jul 17, 2024
 963     0 
News   Jul 16, 2024
 1.1K     2 

Rob Ford's Toronto

Status
Not open for further replies.
But where did that $70 million come from? Has the city confirmed that we have found 70 million and detailed where every single dollar was saved?

Also, if we had not eliminated the car registration tax (while we eliminated this tax, other cities around the world are adding it), how much more in revenue would the city have?
 
Is the bottom line the deal-breaker for you? What if you receive BETTER service via the public sector? Yes, we'd be paying for it, but it would be better service. There's more to running a city than the bottom line. As a tax payer, quality is just as important to me as is cost. Mind you, I'm not saying that public is always better than private or vice versa; but, the bottom line shouldn't be the only consideration when running (and developing, which Ford isn't) a city (I don't think so, anyway).

If we are comparing costs, then I want to compare bottom-line costs, not labour costs. Of course quality is also an important consideration when making a choice. I'm just saying, let's compare apples and apples.
 
That's some really scary math. Does he know that $70 million is only 10% of $700million? and that the deeper you go, the harder it is to find those dollars? It was hard enough to find $70million, what makes him think the rest will be easier?
 
Are those rhetorical questions ^^^^.

And to top it off, he said on AM680 today that he's going ahead with cancelling the land transfer tax (which I have to pay next week!). He said it would probably be phased in over 4 years. So there's another revenue source gone.
 
A quick google search gave me Seattle's number at 72%.


RF is a moron to quote 20% of revenue for payroll for a manufacturing industry to compare the business of a municipality that is mostly services and manufactures nothing.

what parameter did you use for your google search?
i tried various ways and get too wide a range of results.

i got the following for hospital (a service industry):
A hospital will normally see between 32% and 40% of net patient revenue going to salaries with another 18% to 25% to employee benefits. ... that's 50-75% for salaries + benefits

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_perc...s_revenue_should_go_to_salaries#ixzz1SDFjt26Z


edit:

i found some data for US municipalities.
their national average was 45%; however, considering the lack of social services and mass transit for alot of them, it would be higher.

the highest rate was NYC, which so many people love to compare TO to, was at 142% !

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7984331/Cuyahoga-County-Public-Employment-and-Payroll-Analysis
 
Last edited:
But where did that $70 million come from? Has the city confirmed that we have found 70 million and detailed where every single dollar was saved?

Also, if we had not eliminated the car registration tax (while we eliminated this tax, other cities around the world are adding it), how much more in revenue would the city have?

From the National Post:

Mr. Ford hailed the mailouts as a “major, major victory” for taxpayers, but critics have warned against abolishing the tax before the city figures out how to plug the revenue hole. The vehicle tax brought in $48-million a year, and its cancellation will cost the city $64-million because of the refunds issued to residents who prepaid.
 
This last week has been very telling, not about Ford or his policies, which have always been on the frontburner, but his inner circle, most noticeably his brain trust and executive committee.

Firstly, the 43-1, 43-2 budget defeats with Ford as the lone dissenter were not only a swift kick, but also incredibly embarrassing. Where were his most trustyworthy allies on his executive committee, or any of his appointed committee chairs, for that matter, to vote in unison? I cannot recall a single vote in Miller or Lastman's mayorality where they were the lone vote in a landslide defeat.

Secondly, his communication wing seems to be, well, non existent. There handling of the KMPG recommendations and inability to keep a lid on media speculation of potential cuts was horrendous. As a mayor that is so outspoken, you would think a well managed PR department would be an absolute necessity.

For a mayor who wants to reshape the city and turn it into a lean, efficient bureaucracy, perhaps it would be best if he looked after his own office and affairs before eviscerating city departments as we now know them.
 
The honeymoon is definitely over. Many of his staunch supporters have suddenly gone quiet and several of them have come forward to announce their regret. Given that Ford was voted in with little margin between him and the "not-Ford" candidates, it's becoming clear that he'll be a one term Mayor.

Further, there's a gathering anger that is starting to reach a critical mass. It will overflow by the time the 2012 budget comes in. Mass layoffs will soon be in the news, and while they are government jobs, people will associate it with general unemployment because it will be so high profile. Unions will go to war with City Hall before union jobs are privatized. There will be strikes and everybody will notice them. Services that many of Ford's base (i.e. lower income outer city folks) depend on will be cut. Crime will rise with the end of social programs.

In my lifetime, I don't believe that I've never seen a time when there's been the real potential of a civic uprising against a Mayor. Ford is pissing off a lot of people and I'm beginning to see the possibility of major demonstrations in front of City Hall calling for him to go before he's finished his term.

Somebody mentioned that they fear that physical harm will be threatened upon the Mayor. I don't think that this is hyperbole at all. If you lose your job because of the Mayor. If services in your community are taken away. If the Mayor continues to hide from reporters and dismiss remarks. People will be angry. To some people, when angry they respond in violence. I hope not, but the Mayor is picking way too many fights with way too many people.
 
Last edited:
Not a Ford fan for other reasons, but all this talk of civic uprising, mass protests at City Hall and possible violent threats against the mayor are being exaggerated. But in case I'm wrong..
 
Are those rhetorical questions ^^^^.

And to top it off, he said on AM680 today that he's going ahead with cancelling the land transfer tax (which I have to pay next week!). He said it would probably be phased in over 4 years. So there's another revenue source gone.

Between the vehicle registration tax and the land transfer tax being phased out, how much revenue would that be in a year - presuming the land transfer tax was already eliminated? Surely we're well into the hundreds of millions per year in lost revenues. There's going to be nothing left of this city in three years. No joke, this man needs to be impeached. Is there a precedent for this in Toronto?
 
How do you think the whole land transfer tax deal is going to play out? The Real estate industry is pushing hard to get it eliminated.

Will we see another suburban/downtown divide, with the suburbanites voting against it? Or will some councillors see through Ford's truthiness and decide to keep it for now?
 
Toronto is vastly undertaxed considering the services and infrastructure we provide / enjoy.
I don't care about the mill rate %. I have a 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown and pay way more property tax than my brother in Mississauga who has a similarly sized home. Sure, if I sold it I'd have more money than my brother, but I'm not moving, I don't care about resale. All I care about is keeping my total property tax as low as possible.
 
I don't care about the mill rate %. I have a 4 bedroom home in Cabbagetown and pay way more property tax than my brother in Mississauga who has a similarly sized home. Sure, if I sold it I'd have more money than my brother, but I'm not moving, I don't care about resale. All I care about is keeping my total property tax as low as possible.

Well you got 2 choices: either gute the system or pay higher taxes.

Now if you want your taxes to be as low as possible, what are you prepared to give up to do that or see as well why??

As for Toronto vs. Mississauga, who has a huge debit and who has none? Why?? How many years of no tax increase??
 
I think it's interesting that KPMG was the same group hired by Mike Harris to look at Toronto, and KPMG recommended amalgamation:

"The Toronto megacity dates back to 1995, when Progressive Conservative Premier Mike Harris attempted to unshackle an economy crippled by unsustainable tax and spend policies and burdensome regulations. In his quest to find efficiencies, Harris commissioned a KPMG study to determine how to make the provinces most populous city run more efficiently. The answer was amalgamation. The study claimed that if the six cities in Metro Toronto were to merge, they could save between $300-$645 million dollars in operating costs per year. These savings could be purchased for a mere $220 million in transition costs—or so the report went. The actual cost ended up being $275 million. More importantly, the operating cost savings were far lower, at $135 million per year. If this were the whole story, the merger would likely be considered a success.

The theory of amalgamation revolves around saving money by reducing redundant bureaucracy."

-Steve LaFleur at New Geography

I think amalgamation was, essentially, a political strategy with rationalistic economic motive. Since the core could not be de-liberalized and captured by the conservatives, they decided to yoke it to the vastly more conservative suburbs to drown it by numbers. Since, for conservatives at their most didactic, government is waste, it's hard to tell either way.

Of course we know what has happened since: the lumpen results has been costing us ever since. I wonder what KPMG's mindset tends to?
There are a lot of recommendations out there - conservative and liberal - that recommend a return of a larger degree of autonomous and regional power to the former suburb cities. Apparently, it is the very inflexibility of the megacity that makes it inefficient emotionally for people to live in. Although many bumps have been smoothed out in procedure, people in one area literally do not understand people in another. A call to pedestrianize streets downtown, for example, would be suicidal in Upper Scarborough or Etobicoke. "Transit" not only sounds different from the core to the suburbs, it is a different thing.

I think this is a huge problem with Ford. None of his "efficiency" solutions deal with the complexity of organizing finely-tuned representation for disparate economic regions within Toronto itself. Just the opposite. By firing volunteer committees, looking to cut council members, chopping by volume and not streamlining by design - his anti-democratic methods only serve to make problems more intractable.

This is a problem that goes beyond left and right, though it might give the right immediate angry advantages. I don't think Ford even qualifies as a true populist. He is merely Self-ist. Blindly so. I don't think he could understand his own explanations, even if he had them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top