Rob Ford's Toronto

[tkip]

Why would I? Smitherman isn't a convicted criminal. Smitherman never lied about his criminal record. Smitherman hasn't got a 3-decade long history of alcohol abuse and then trying to cover it up. Smitherman hasn't shown prejudice against any racial, ethnic, or sexual groups.

Smitherman is twice the man that Ford will ever be! I still don't think Smitherman would be a great mayor though.

What? Are you kidding? Your just trolling, right? I've posted evidence so many times it could be considered harassment?

Again with your assertion that Ford is bigot based on well, nothing. You don't have anything. Because Ford has never been quoted or caught saying he hates gays and wishes them harm.

He's made dumb comments on a whole spectrum of topics. Ford has verbal diarrhea. That's his main problem. People are being selective about what he says and then claiming it's proof he's out to destroy lives. But I know this isn't enough for you nfitz. In your mind, you've decided Ford is guilty. And you've said the most heinous things about Ford.

What's come out of your mouth towards Ford is far worse than anything I've seen in print regarding Ford having made comments about others.

Smitherman has a well documented history of verbal abusing people, calling them names, making threats, using clear intimidation and clearly having abused his power, yet somehow it's only a minor crime in your book. In your own words, "Smitherman is twice the man Ford will ever be". Which is really scary when you consider how badly Smitherman acted when in office.

But according to you, Ford is evil and vile. Words you've used to describe him/his behavior on more than one occasion.

 

[nfitz]

It doesn't really matter what you say ... those like tkip will simply look for ways to justify why it's either okay to discriminate against gays, why it's not discrimination ... or if not possible, why the person who points out without refute that Ford is prejudiced has some kind of bias.

If Ford's own words that he opposes same-sex marriage, and has the same beliefs as a well-known anti-gay preacher aren't enough to convince those like tkip that Ford is prejudiced ... when we are facing someone who is as prejudiced as Ford, and there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[Still Waters]

Well, deliberately prejudiced or just ignorant...either way, not good qualifications for Mayor of Canada's largest city!

 

[tkip]

Hell, even another member posted evidence of Ford's prejudice towards the LGBT community.

No. What was posted demonstrated that Ford is ignorant. Ford has a history of making ignorant comments on a whole range of topics. Not just gays. Ford has verbal diarrhea.

 

[tkip]

Well, deliberately prejudiced or just ignorant...either way, not good qualifications for Mayor of Canada's largest city!

Probably not. I agree. But people need to learn the difference between making dumb, uninformed comments and intentionally wishing harm towards others.

 

[tkip]

It doesn't really matter what you say ... those like tkip will simply look for ways to justify why it's either okay to discriminate against gays, why it's not discrimination ... or if not possible, why the person who points out without refute that Ford is prejudiced has some kind of bias.

If Ford's own words that he opposes same-sex marriage, and has the same beliefs as a well-known anti-gay preacher aren't enough to convince those like tkip that Ford is prejudiced ... when we are facing someone who is as prejudiced as Ford, and there's no point in continuing this discussion.

Now you're trying to make your case Ford is a bigot because a anti-gay preacher has similar views on marriage. Their crime? They believe marriage is between men and women.

Yes, this automatically translates into them hating gays and wishing harm towards them as opposed to them just having a opinion/belief. This delusional world you live in, where people that don't believe in same sex marriage are automatically villains. Most of the world believes marriage means between men and women. I don't believe in same sex marriage either.

Most of my co-workers don't. Most of my friends don't. This must mean we're all raging bigots just like Ford. Guess, Obama needs to resign too, right?

 

[nfitz]

They believe marriage is between men and women.

Precisely! This is an example of prejudice.

It's inconceivable in this day and age that anyone thinks it's okay to express such discrimination.

I don't believe in same sex marriage either.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself! What gives you the right to discrimate against others? Your immorality is shocking!

How can you claim that such vile behaviour is the act of ignorance ... and then start spreading such terrible thoughts yourself. And good grief - where does one find co-workers and friends of such bizarre and backwards beliefs?? The claim is beyond astounding ... in what industry do you work? In Toronto?!?!

 

[tkip]

Precisely! This is an example of prejudice.

It's inconceivable in this day and age that anyone thinks it's okay to express such discrimination.

Then you should be ashamed of yourself! What gives you the right to discrimate against others? Your immorality is sickening.

How can you claim that such vile behaviour is the act of ignorance ... and then start spreading such evil hatred yourself?

You're a very disturbed individual nfitz. Accusing me of spreading hate? Really? As opposed to your fiery sermons or personal attacks on those don't share your morals?

Believing that marriage means between men and women isn't discrimination. It's an opinion/view. Everyone has their beliefs on a multitude of topics. Not everyone agrees. I don't go around accusing others of being bad human beings for having different opinions. But you do. You're a bully nfitz. There's something much deeper to this entire gay crusade than meets the eye with you.

Your hate is way over the top. There is something very personal in all this with you. You're hiding something.

 

[Torontovibe]

“Men who don’t truly comprehend the reality of the importance of the God defined family will dismantle the very ethical fibres of what a healthy democratic civilization is.”

What does that statement mean to you?


And what about this one, how would you interpret this if the person who made this statement voted against the funding?

“If you are not doing needles and you are not gay, you wouldn’t get AIDS probably, that’s the bottom line.”

Now for one minute, put your self in that persons shoes and try to empathize, if you indeed have that ability. Is it surprising to you that someone might question this persons agenda and their beliefs?

Now change that statement a bit. Let's say Ford said If you are not black (or Jewish, Chinese, Italian or whatever) you wouldn't get AIDS probably, that's the bottom line. (So I'm voting AGAINST giving funds to that cause)

So what is Ford saying about the value of those people's lives? Think of how that can be interpreted as I don't care about drug users and gay people, their lives have no value. Would he not want to prevent drug users and gays from getting AIDS? If Ford had a bit of empathy, might he not have seen how people might take that statement, how the gay community might take that statement?

Come on, be honest and think about how you would feel if those statements were directed towards you or someone you love. It's not just about what Ford means, it's also about the over-all vibe of Ford's actions. (and words)

OK, now add on the fact that Ford does not believe in gay marriage and he refused to go to ANY Pride events, even when he was in town.

Now, reread the first statement, which was a quote from Pastor Wendell Brereton saying “Men who don’t truly comprehend the reality of the importance of the God defined family will dismantle the very ethical fibres of what a healthy democratic civilization is.”

Is that not saying homosexuality will be the downfall of our democratic civilization? That's a tad melodramatic. lol Ford supported this guy and actually said THEY SHARE THE SAME BELIEFS!

So, you guys are still wondering why we homosexuals might find Ford to be anti-gay? Homophobic?

Again, I think people are being a little disingenuous. Walk a mile in our shoes and see how things look from our side. Then read all the anti-gay bull-shit in EVERY newspaper and tell us why we shouldn't feel under attack? It wasn't that long ago that these attacks were a normal part of gay people's lives.

 

[tkip]

“Men who don’t truly comprehend the reality of the importance of the God defined family will dismantle the very ethical fibres of what a healthy democratic civilization is.”

What does that statement mean to you?


And what about this one, how would you interpret this if the person who made this statement voted against the funding?

“If you are not doing needles and you are not gay, you wouldn’t get AIDS probably, that’s the bottom line.”

Now for one minute, put your self in that persons shoes and try to empathize, if you indeed have that ability. Is it surprising to you that someone might question this persons agenda and their beliefs?

Now change that statement a bit. Let's say Ford said If you are not black (or Jewish, Chinese, Italian or whatever) you wouldn't get AIDS probably, that's the bottom line. (So I'm voting AGAINST giving funds to that cause)

So what is Ford saying about the value of those people's lives? Think of how that can be interpreted as I don't care about drug users and gay people, their lives have no value. Would he not want to prevent drug users and gays from getting AIDS? If Ford had a bit of empathy, might he not have seen how people might take that statement, how the gay community might take that statement?

Come on, be honest and think about how you would feel if those statements were directed towards you or someone you love. It's not just about what Ford means, it's also about the over-all vibe of Ford's actions. (and words)

OK, now add on the fact that Ford does not believe in gay marriage and he refused to go to ANY Pride events, even when he was in town.

Now, reread the first statement, which was a quote from Pastor Wendell Brereton saying “Men who don’t truly comprehend the reality of the importance of the God defined family will dismantle the very ethical fibres of what a healthy democratic civilization is.”

Is that not saying homosexuality will be the downfall of our democratic civilization? That's a tad melodramatic. lol Ford supported this guy and actually said THEY SHARE THE SAME BELIEFS!

So, you guys are still wondering why we homosexuals might find Ford to be anti-gay? Homophobic?

Again, I think people are being a little disingenuous. Walk a mile in our shoes and see how things look from our side. Then read all the anti-gay bull-shit in EVERY newspaper and tell us why we shouldn't feel under attack? It wasn't that long ago that these attacks were a normal part of gay people's lives.

And Ford apparently didn't attend any of the city's Canada's Days celebrations either. One can certainly argue that Canada Day is more important than Pride.

No one is talking about this at all. Ford has probably skipped several other engagements as well over time. But everyone is fixated on the pride and gay issue. And it's become so tiresome. Like the gay issue is the only thing on the table. Is he uncomfortable being around gays? Possibly. Not a crime though. And maybe he felt unwelcomed at Pride. Maybe someone advised he not go.

We don't know. And him sharing the same beliefs as some preacher on that marriage is between men and women is not evidence of hate towards gays. Not even close.

And Ford has made many verbal blunders and fumbling comments on a host of issues. But again, people only focus on the gay issue and try and make it about Ford being discriminating against them. Ford, like so many people out there, has made his share of misinformed and ignorant remarks but it's not evidence that he's a bigot.

It only means he doesn't understand or he just has own opinion on certain matters. This doesn't translate into him secretly hating gays and wishing them harm.

 

[RC8]

While I still refuse to use the whole 'bigot' terminology, it is very clear that Rob Ford due to his profound ignorance has misunderstood what homosexuality is, and has therefore openly discriminated against the right of homosexuals to be cared for by our city (in the case of the aids funding).

While deviant bisexual behaviour might have to do with values and the like, it is obvious that a significant proportion of homosexuals would be repressing themselves to a horrible degree in order to conform to a heterosexual society. They have the right to be happy and pursue their happiness with others who share their feelings.

Gay marriage might seem pointless to you. It seems pointless to me, I'm straight and I couldn't care less if I marry someone or not as long as I love them... but it does make things a lot easier if you want to move in together, share bank accounts, etc. Call it something else, don't call it marriage, but they are entitled to that option if it makes a lot of people happy and harms no one.

 

[tkip]

While I still refuse to use the whole 'bigot' terminology, it is very clear that Rob Ford due to his profound ignorance has misunderstood what homosexuality is, and has therefore openly discriminated against the right of homosexuals to be cared for by our city (in the case of the aids funding).

While deviant bisexual behaviour might have to do with values and the like, it is obvious that a significant proportion of homosexuals would be repressing themselves to a horrible degree in order to conform to a heterosexual society. They have the right to be happy and pursue their happiness with others who share their feelings.

Gay marriage might seem pointless to you. It seems pointless to me, I'm straight and I couldn't care less if I marry someone or not as long as I love them... but it does make things a lot easier if you want to move in together, share bank accounts, etc. Call it something else, don't call it marriage, but they are entitled to that option if it makes a lot of people happy and harms no one.

I've said in the past, call same sex relationships unions. That's the definition I think works.

Marriage has always been defined as between the genders. It's reproductive in origin. And one can hardly accuse only Ford of misunderstanding the gay issue or community. Honestly, as an outside, how could most of us relate? I know I couldn't and can't. I can't relate to a black household either in certain respects. Or a women, or a poor person in Africa.

And hasn't Ford question other types of funding? Not just the Aids funding? Again, people have their blinders on.

 

[SlickFranky]

Guys...his mom said he doesn't hate gays. And his brother said so too. Plus, if one of the gays calls him at his job, and he finds out they're a gay, he still helps them.

 

[nfitz]

You're a very disturbed individual nfitz.

I am extremely disturbed to find out that there are people here who are so deeply prejudiced that they actually think it's acceptable to say that it's okay to discriminate based on sexual orientation or race!

Accusing me of spreading hate?

That is exactly what you are doing.

Believing that marriage means between men and women isn't discrimination.

Of course it's discrimination! How can it possibly be anything other than discrimination! Even our courts have been very clear on this.

It's an opinion/view.

It's also an opinion/view of some that there shouldn't be interracial marriage. Or that Christians shouldn't marry Muslims. Are those also only opinion's and views?

You're hiding something.

I'm hiding something? Really? Yet you failed to answer the question of what industry you work in where everyone runs around discriminating against gays! Do your gay co-workers, friend, and relatives share in this ... or is it all done behind their backs?

 

[Irishmonk]

There is not one legally defensible reason to prevent or deny gay marriage. Not one.