Rob Ford's Toronto

[lafard]

Work hard, live well below your means, save at least 10% of before tax income, invest wisely, and one will find that when bad luck strikes, one is better prepared..

Easy enough to say. But people are idiots. Eg, I work for the provincial gov't. Many of my co-workers have nothing as they've subscribed to the "job for life" and pension theories. Meanwhile, with a Hudak win in the cards, I can see those layoffs coming a mile away away and have begun preparing accordingly.

Though...it may depend on the calibre of opposition, too. With another SmitherPants situation (or Harris vs "not up to the job" McGuinty in 99, or Harper vs Dion in 08, or *maybe* Harper vs Iggy in 11), voters might still opt for the-devil-you-know by default...

Honestly, I've lost all faith in the electoral process. The buffoon won. Perhaps it was a once-off coalescence of factors, perhaps the planets will still be aligned that way in 2014. I don't know. In a reasonable world one can make such extrapolations. We know suburban Toronto isn't a reasonable world.

 

[archanfel]

Ah, it was indeed not you who had proposed further eliminating it.

But it was archanfel who was talking about cutting it severely. I certainly wouldn't call that revamping though ... and if you don't support that kind of evil, then I apologize.

I guess when you say you are going on a diet, you really mean you are going to stop eating altogether. When you say you are going to lose some weight, you really mean you are going to stop existing. Is that some sort of pinko lingo?

 

[archanfel]

Easy enough to say. But people are idiots. Eg, I work for the provincial gov't. Many of my co-workers have nothing as they've subscribed to the "job for life" and pension theories. Meanwhile, with a Hudak win in the cards, I can see those layoffs coming a mile away away and have begun preparing accordingly.

Honestly, I've lost all faith in the electoral process. The buffoon won. Perhaps it was a once-off coalescence of factors, perhaps the planets will still be aligned that way in 2014. I don't know. In a reasonable world one can make such extrapolations. We know suburban Toronto isn't a reasonable world.

Public employees are different. They have much better job security and defined benefit pension plan. Even Hudak can't change all that. Even then, I would think at least a year of emergency fund is required. Unfortunately, I don't have such luxury. I have seen too many layoffs to have any delusion about job security. There's nothing I can do about that other than to be prepared.

I have more faith in the electoral process than before. If a buffoon can win, that means we are not fixed into a single policy. Democracy makes mistakes every now and then and policies tends to overshoot most of the time. What would be more troubling is if the society is stuck with blind faith in certain policies, whereas all alternatives are branded "evil" without any rational considerations. If Rob Ford was the wrong choice, then there would always be time to fix it.

 

[archanfel]

I agree. Jane Pitfield was no match for Miller and he easily sailed into his second term. Incumbents often have the "devil you know" factor and low turnout on their side. However, if Ford gets a real rebellion in council against him, he's going to have a hard time passing any of his policies and is going to come across as incompetent. A strong leader of the opposition can mount a serious offensive, specially with the absence of Ford's anti-status-quo strategy.

My bets are on Shelley Carroll over Adam Vaughan. Ford's clique is going to spend the next 4 years demonizing him as a bitter socialist while Shelley Carroll will keep low and look like a fresh, smart, competent Mayor. She was smart to stay out of the 2010 race but 2014 will be the perfect scenario for her to step in.

You mean the lady who gave us the vehicle tax and now calls it a mistake? If that was not incompetent, then I don't know what was. No matter whether you are for the tax or against the tax, she didn't do her job. She either introduced a bad tax or she did a bad job selling it.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The VRT was a fine tax, but the Mayor and his team sure did a bad job communicating its purpose and what the funding would be used for. This is the hallmark problem of Miller's second term, as they seemingly developed a contempt for (some of) the public and the media and refused to explain or defend their actions.

Carroll deserves a part of that blame, sure, but I thought she did a nice job of owning her (and council's) mistakes this past week.

If our entire political discourse just devolves to waiting until politicians make mistakes and then using those mistakes as a reason to "throw the bums out!" we're essentially going to be left with governments that have no interest in doing ANYTHING. We'll end up with more leaders like Harper whose entire 5+ year legacy as Prime Minister is... maintaining a long-lasting minority government.

That's the thing that scares me, I guess. People can point to a project like St. Clair and get angry at their elected officials. And it's well-deserved. But the Rob Ford alternative on a St. Clair-like project isn't to find ways to do the work better. It's to not do the work at all. Let the street rot and then when the next government is sucker enough to try to fix it, blame them when things go over-budget.

 

[nfitz]

I guess when you say you are going on a diet, you really mean you are going to stop eating altogether. When you say you are going to lose some weight, you really mean you are going to stop existing./QUOTE]Yes, when you are already suffering malnutrition and massively underweight, going on a diet can mean you will stop existing.

Is that some sort of pinko lingo?

Pinko lingo? Good grief, are you from the 1950s or something?

 

[archanfel]

The VRT was a fine tax, but the Mayor and his team sure did a bad job communicating its purpose and what the funding would be used for. This is the hallmark problem of Miller's second term, as they seemingly developed a contempt for (some of) the public and the media and refused to explain or defend their actions.

Carroll deserves a part of that blame, sure, but I thought she did a nice job of owning her (and council's) mistakes this past week.

If our entire political discourse just devolves to waiting until politicians make mistakes and then using those mistakes as a reason to "throw the bums out!" we're essentially going to be left with governments that have no interest in doing ANYTHING. We'll end up with more leaders like Harper whose entire 5+ year legacy as Prime Minister is... maintaining a long-lasting minority government.

That's the thing that scares me, I guess. People can point to a project like St. Clair and get angry at their elected officials. And it's well-deserved. But the Rob Ford alternative on a St. Clair-like project isn't to find ways to do the work better. It's to not do the work at all. Let the street rot and then when the next government is sucker enough to try to fix it, blame them when things go over-budget.

Nobody said democracy is perfect. A dictatorship is far more efficient at times since the leaders would be free to "do things" without having to worry about being thrown out. Unfortunately, when the leaders do make mistakes, they tend to destroy the country. Democracy is less efficient, but we can't afford dictatorship anymore.

Rob Ford is not doing nothing, he is implementing his campaign promises whether you agree with him or not. And sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. Of course, those are not the things you wanted, so you are scared. I can claim that I was scared by Miller since he didn't cut my taxes and recklessly added services that I don't need, but that would be somewhat unfair since Miller did what the city elected him to do (and did a pretty good job I might add. It's just the city changed its mind). We have a democratic system, unless you can think of a better system, that's all we got.

In 4 years, the city mind change its mind again.

 

[archanfel]

Yes, when you are already suffering malnutrition and massively underweight, going on a diet can mean you will stop existing.

That's where we disagree. I think our welfare system is bloated, obese and unsustainable. The poor health is due to lack of exercises rather than lack of food. I don't think poor people should be shot, I think they should be whipped (not literally before you start to yell evil) into action. The goal of the program should be about giving people choices, instead of removing choices from both the poor and the middle class.

 

[nfitz]

That's where we disagree. I think our welfare system is bloated, obese and unsustainable. The poor health is due to lack of exercises rather than lack of food. I don't think poor people should be shot, I think they should be whipped (not literally before you start to yell evil) into action. The goal of the program should be about giving people choices, instead of removing choices from both the poor and the middle class.

Good grief. How much blood do you think you can get from a stone?

Unsustainable? Our welfare system costs a pittance compared to some nations ... and our bloated healthcare system (to which I don't see any way of cutting until our spendthrift neighbours do something about theirs).

 

[Glen]

The VRT was a fine tax, but the Mayor and his team sure did a bad job communicating its purpose and what the funding would be used for.

The purpose was to fill a hole in the budget and the revenue was not earmarked for anything other than the operating budget.

 

[archanfel]

Good grief. How much blood do you think you can get from a stone?

Unsustainable? Our welfare system costs a pittance compared to some nations ... and our bloated healthcare system (to which I don't see any way of cutting until our spendthrift neighbours do something about theirs).

Actually, a lot, if you are creative about it. You can sell the stone to somebody who needs stone and buy blood with the proceeding, you can make stone axe from the stone and kill an animal to get the blood, you can make a trap with the stone. If all you do is sit by the stone and complain about it, then that's your fault, not the stone's.

The welfare system should offer short term assistance with an expectation of future returns, not to trap somebody in poverty as it is doing now.

 

[nfitz]

The welfare system should offer short term assistance with an expectation of future returns, not to trap somebody in poverty as it is doing now.

I agree - we should be spending a lot more money on programs to get people off welfare, and stop them getting on welfare.

It's not likely to save money though.

 

[W. K. Lis]

They should have made the plastic bag fee a tax instead of a fee, with the money going to the city instead of the store's cash register.

 

[nfitz]

They should have made the plastic bag fee a tax instead of a fee, with the money going to the city instead of the store's cash register.

I hate to imagine the infrastructure and record keeping that this would have required.

Surely the cost of such a program, and all the additional civil servants, would have made a fee much greater than 5¢. Not to mention the costs to business to keep track of it at such a level.

While not perfect, the current program is cheap and get's a lot of bang for the buck. By changing the program, it might be slightly more effective, but much more costly, making it much less efficient.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The rabbit is hard to put back in the hat on this one. Retailers love the fee. Even if you reversed the bylaw, I doubt you'd see stores eliminating the charge.