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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Peepers said:
Mammoliti is not alone in his criticism of Crean:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/cit...-fiona-crean-under-attack-for-scathing-report
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I'm not seeing anyone else there saying it's outside of her jurisdiction.

Doug Ford said it's hearsay? How could that actually even be true, given that it's from direct evidence under oath. The only other criticism of the report by councillors that is mentioned is Nunziatta complaining that comments from right-wingers are not included - which doesn't make sense, as the report doesn't contain comments from any notable left-wingers either.
 
Originally Posted by Riverdale Rink Rat
Peeps - which right wing Councillor do you work for? Just curious...


Why does anyone who not agree with the anti-Ford crowd always be accused of working for any of the right-wing councilors? Can you not understand that a people majority of people elected a man to do a job and are defending him from those who will not let him do what we the people elected him to do?
 
malvern2 said:
Originally Posted by Riverdale Rink Rat
Peeps - which right wing Councillor do you work for? Just curious...


Why does anyone who not agree with the anti-Ford crowd always be accused of working for any of the right-wing councilors? Can you not understand that a people majority of people elected a man to do a job and are defending him from those who will not let him do what we the people elected him to do?
Click to expand...

Because it's hard to imagine a sane and objective person not recognizing the absurd and mean-spirited lunacy of Ford & co's actions.
 
nfitz said:
I'm not seeing anyone else there saying it's outside of her jurisdiction.

Doug Ford said it's hearsay? How could that actually even be true, given that it's from direct evidence under oath. The only other criticism of the report by councillors that is mentioned is Nunziatta complaining that comments from right-wingers are not included - which doesn't make sense, as the report doesn't contain comments from any notable left-wingers either.
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There are various complaints against Crean. I agree Doug Ford is wrong to call the allegations hearsay - I don't think Ford knows the definition of hearsay. However what is in the report is really no better than hearsay because it is based on allegations by nameless civil servants (probably partisan) whose identity has been kept secret. As such these allegations should not have seen the light of day. I don't know that the fact that the allegations were given "under oath" makes much difference since they are not testifying in matters that relate to a judicial proceeding. It may seem to add weight to the report to say that the statements were given under oath but where is the penalty of perjury if they are found to have lied?
 
Peepers:

there are various complaints against Crean. I agree Doug Ford is wrong to call the allegations hearsay - I don't think Ford knows the definition of hearsay. However what is in the report is really no better than hearsay because it is based on allegations by nameless civil servants (probably partisan) whose identity has been kept secret. As such these allegations should not have seen the light of day. I don't know that the fact that the allegations were given "under oath" makes much difference since they are not testifying in matters that relate to a judicial proceeding. It may seem to add weight to the report to say that the statements were given under oath but where is the penalty of perjury if they are found to have lied?
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What various complaints and from whom, exactly? Any less than complaints about the chief magistrate's behaviour? And let me simplify what you've just said - It's wrong to call the allegations hearsay but what's it's the report is no better than hearsay. And for someone who hasn't taken an oath you certainly are raising a whole lot of ifs, ands or buts. So, let me get this straight - everyone in the bureaucracy involved in the case is a) aligned politically against Ford, b) all decided to lie about the same thing and c) managed to convince the City Manager to collaborate the story? And we have to contrast that probability with the proven record of his worship lying about various aspects of his behaviour? Pray tell, what conclusion should we come to?

And before one accuse her of bias, well, he certainly didn't say so when the news is convenient. Let me familiarize you:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/12/02/16407706.html

Speaking of manipulation...you haven't quite answered my question about the logic of raising Crean's salary in your assertion that she is, by extension, biased.

malvern:

Why does anyone who not agree with the anti-Ford crowd always be accused of working for any of the right-wing councilors? Can you not understand that a people majority of people elected a man to do a job and are defending him from those who will not let him do what we the people elected him to do?
Click to expand...

Elected him to do what, and within the context of what? (i.e. the law). It would seem that his worship and his supporter have difficulties understanding the limits of his power. Sorry, the utter inability for some to understand that fundamental fact, i.e. a leader must act within the laws which empowers him/her makes one wonder the substance of their understanding in the principles of democracy. About as much as his worship's, I suppose (I learned it all from my father...)

AoD
 
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malvern2 said:
Originally Posted by Riverdale Rink Rat
Peeps - which right wing Councillor do you work for? Just curious...


Why does anyone who not agree with the anti-Ford crowd always be accused of working for any of the right-wing councilors? Can you not understand that a people majority of people elected a man to do a job and are defending him from those who will not let him do what we the people elected him to do?
Click to expand...

A majority of people did not elect Ford. Get your facts straight. And just because someone elected a politician does not mean that said person can regret his/her choice and complain about the politicians behaviour?
 
Thanos said:
A majority of people did not elect Ford. Get your facts straight. And just because someone elected a politician does not mean that said person can regret his/her choice and complain about the politicians behaviour?
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If we are going to split hairs, Rob Ford did get a majority - he received a relative majority (i.e. plurality). Ford did not receive a simple majority but he came very close with 47% of the votes.

Despite the fact that 47% of voters cast their ballot for Ford (myself included) anyone on this forum who doesn't agree with the anti-Ford people on here (seemingly the majority) are accused of working for a right-wing Councillor - or are subject to personal attacks (e.g. their sanity is questioned).
 
Huh? I don't assume that those who voted for his worship works for him or is otherwise insane - but I certainly will question a) the wisdom of their choice and b) their objectivity of said choice. Given the events since unfolded, I don't think that question is an invalid one regardless of where one stand on the political spectrum.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Huh? I don't assume that those who voted for his worship works for him or is otherwise insane - but I certainly will question a) the wisdom of their choice and b) their objectivity of said choice. Given the events since unfolded, I don't think that question is an invalid one regardless of where one stand on the political spectrum.

AoD
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Well, there are two different kinds of stupid involved. The kind of stupid that would lead you to vote for Ford in the first place...and the kind of stupid that still thinks it was a good idea.
 
In the middle of the heated arguing, name calling and wrangling at city hall today around the Ombudsman's accusations about the mayor's office tainting the appointment process, Mayor Ford...took extra time off at lunch to go check on a football team.

From the Globe and Mail:
"Mayor Ford did not speak or ask questions during the debate on the ombudsman’s findings.

He slipped out briefly at lunch to check in on his high-school football team at a game in Scarborough, but returned to the chambers before 3 p.m."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...or-city-boards-to-be-adjusted/article4590407/
 
CanadianNational said:
In the middle of the heated arguing, name calling and wrangling at city hall today around the Ombudsman's accusations about the mayor's office tainting the appointment process, Mayor Ford...took extra time off at lunch to go check on a football team.

From the Globe and Mail:
"Mayor Ford did not speak or ask questions during the debate on the ombudsman’s findings.

He slipped out briefly at lunch to check in on his high-school football team at a game in Scarborough, but returned to the chambers before 3 p.m."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...or-city-boards-to-be-adjusted/article4590407/
Click to expand...


are there still people who don't question his ethics, competence and skewed ideas of what conflict of interest and 'gravy' are?
 
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