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Rob Ford's Toronto

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tiffer24 said:
On decrease in parking tickets. Yep, rebates for everyone.

reporterdonpeat 10:42am via Web
"We've got to treat everything like a business down here" Cllr Doug Ford.
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Seriously. Is this the legendary Ford business acumen on display? Give guaranteed income away?
 
Roy G Biv said:
This Globe story is better than anything that has come out of the ITO's. It implicates Doug, and it can't be dismissed as "personal".
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Yes! Agree 100%. Sadly, being an asshole will always be a benefit to a certain portion of the electorate. Corruption doesn't play so well.

And corruption is the one thing that they cannot cop to (unlike addiction) and try to twist to their advantage. There's no sympathy. No rehab.

And it's the big thing that never seems to stick with them, which is what frustrates me most of all.
 
themarc said:
The client actually got included on a tax break that was reserved for the original land owner only - they shouldn't have gotten a full $2.5M tax break on land they didn't own - they were only tenants!
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Yes, but it is absolutely routine for a lease of commercial premises to include as "rent" a straight pass-though of the amount of municipal tax payable by the owner. Thus, in the absolutely routine case, a reduction of the municipal tax payable by the owner benefits the tenant. There seems no reason to think that Apollo would have a lease the terms of which deviate wildly on this subject.

As an illustration, in practice many municipal tax assessment appeals are launched by tenants of commercial premises to seek to reduce the amount of municipal tax that will be passed through to them by the owners; when, as is entirely normal, the owner can pass the expense through, the party with the ultimate economic interest in the municipal tax bill is the tenant. For example, some years ago a large number of tenants of the TD Centre (owned by a sub of Cadillac-Fairview at the time) fought and won a municipal tax assessment appeal; they carried on the appeal precisely because the benefit of the win enured to them, by lessening the amount of municipal taxes payable by their landlord and so passed through to them as part of their "rent".

I suspect that the G&M article spoke of Apollo "getting" the tax grant because the tendency of anyone who is not interested in the details of how to get from A to B will be to just say that B happened.
 
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pud99 said:
Yes, but it is absolutely routine for a lease of commercial premises to include as "rent" a straight pass-though of the amount of municipal tax payable by the owner. Thus, in the absolutely routine case, a reduction of the municipal tax payable by the owner benefits the tenant. There seems no reaosn to think that Apollo would have a lease the terms of which deviate wildly on this subject.

As an illustration, in practice many municipal tax assessment appeals are launched by tenants of commercial premises to seek to reduce the amount of municipal tax that will be passed through to them by the owners; when, as is entirely normal, the owner can pass the expense through, the party with the ultimate economic interest in the municipal tax bill is the tenant. For example, some years ago a large number of tenants of the TD Centre (owned by a sub of Cadillac-Fairview at the time) fought and won a municipal business tax appeal; they carried on the appeal precisely because the benefit of the win enured to them, but lessening the amount of municipal taxes passed through to them as part of their "rent".
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Thanks for the clarity on this. Makes sense (though I had to read it twice).
 
mrtinfoilsocket said:
I don't know - I saw a member of Ford Nation on twitter today commenting on the Apollo story - "Good on them for helping others!!"
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Sigh. People just don't get it. Of course it's right and proper for councillors to help citizens benefit from the city's rules. What's wrong is hiding conflicts, an issue made all the worse by getting Apollo special access to senior staff due to the company's relationship with the Fords. All Doug and Rob had to do was ask Apollo to the take this to their councillor for their ward. But no... They had to be in charge. Again, I sigh.
 
mrtinfoilsocket said:
I don't know - I saw a member of Ford Nation on twitter today commenting on the Apollo story - "Good on them for helping others!!"
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Ugh. Yeah. You're right.

I have an unassailable belief in the ability of humans to eventually see right and wrong. But that's because I'm dumb.

There just will always be that hardened Ford core, I suppose. I think I just hold out hope that though they may be invested in the fight and crow loudly, there's some part of them that actually knows what's what, and they'll just stay home on Election Day.

In the darkness of the voting booth, there's nothing to defend, nobody to prove yourself to. Nobody has to know that they bailed on Ford Nation. That's my hope.
 
ThoughtArcade said:
Ugh. Yeah. You're right.

I have an unassailable belief in the ability of humans to eventually see right and wrong. But that's because I'm dumb.

There just will always be that hardened Ford core, I suppose. I think I just hold out hope that though they may be invested in the fight and crow loudly, there's some part of them that actually knows what's what, and they'll just stay home on Election Day.

In the darkness of the voting booth, there's nothing to defend, nobody to prove yourself to. Nobody has to know that they bailed on Ford Nation. That's my hope.
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I respect your optimism! It just feels like I've had mine beaten out of me over the last year or so.
 
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Cooper said:
Sigh. People just don't get it. Of course it's right and proper for councillors to help citizens benefit from the city's rules. What's wrong is hiding conflicts, an issue made all the worse by getting Apollo special access to senior staff due to the company's relationship with the Fords. All Doug and Rob had to do was ask Apollo to the take this to their councillor for their ward. But no... They had to be in charge. Again, I sigh.
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That is totally the thing. There were multiple, completely legit options here. They went this route because 1) they don't know or understand morality or ethics in office. They literally just don't understand why this would be unacceptable. or 2) just don't care because they are entitled s.o.b.'s who think they can get away with anything all of the time.
 
ParkdalePetunia said:
That is totally the thing. There were multiple, completely legit options here. They went this route because 1) they don't know or understand morality or ethics in office. They literally just don't understand why this would be unacceptable. or 2) just don't care because they are entitled s.o.b.'s who think they can get away with anything all of the time.
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or could be both - they don't know the rules and don't give a sh*t.
 
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