Rob Ford's Toronto

[GenerationW]

So, it's always been about Scarborough. Trouble is, Bob and Doug don't know the math. They should look at the recent census. Etobicoke and Scarborough together are about 1 million. Rest of Toronto is 1.6 million. ROT > ES. If that's their strategy they are even dumber than I thought. How they can run a business is beyond me.

You're forgetting North York.

Eglinton was never going to get a subway. Just an underground LRT. He is trying to deceive people. Just because an LRT is underground does not make it a subway. He thinks if its underground its a subway. And there was no way Finch was ever going to get a subway. The issue is most people are not informed. They hear Ford say subways and believe the proposed LRT was really gong to be a subway. He was not elected because he was going to build subways but because he promised to cut waste. I don;t know why this misconception that Ford was elected because he promised subways comes from.. Ford does not know the difference between streetcar, LRT and subways, Just because its underground does not mean its a subway

Technically, anything underground is a subway. In this case it's not a traditional Toronto subway.

I imagine if Ford had the chance he would have either cancelled Eglinton or switched from LRT to HRT, but things were too far along.

 

[Irishmonk]

You're forgetting North York.

Actually, Doug Ford is forgetting North York - at least in that statement I referred to. North York is likely to determine the election and that's where the Fords should be blowing all their kisses. When is the last time either of the Fords have said anything about Old Toronto or the Yorks. It's always Scarborough, Scarborough, Scarborough!!
It's worse than the damn Brady Bunch.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Scarborough councilors voted down the Fords' transit plan. Scarborough was not ignored, they had their voice and vote at council.

Besides, why are we still using the Scarborough name? It no longer exists. And if you're using it informally then you need to clarify what part of the former city of Scarborough is being referred to. My parents live at the bottom of the bluffs near Meadowcliff. Their area of Scarborough is just fine, and has nothing in common with the dregs in Malvern et al.

 

[Gavin]

As much as I dislike Ford, he was elected by the people of Toronto to serve a term (and serves us right, collectively, for electing the guy). The idea that the province could overrule the will of the people of Toronto doesn't sit right with me. Firstly, because given that power a less Toronto-friendly Premier could replace a popular, albeit unco-operative, mayor at will. Secondly, because the stuck-with-you relationship between the mayor and council helps, under normal circumstances, to foster compromise between various political factions.

I hate him more than most people -- like, the sound of his voice makes my skin crawl -- but I still agree with this. Rightly or wrongly, he was elected and we deserve the mayor we voted for.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I'm all in favour of a referendum as long the following are attached:

1. Sales taxes, road tolls, local levies, etc.
2. Experts decide what projects get priority.

Of course that would never happen. God forbid if a downtown subway ever got approved in such a manner. Rob Ford would die from heart failure.

I like where you're going with this, but I fail to see why it would never happen. A referendum would need council's approval. If Stintz's panel came back with a recommendation for a referendum on revenue tools, I don't think it's impossible for one to be mandated by council. Having said that, even with the panel's recommendation, I wouldn't put the chances at better than 1 in 2.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I hate him more than most people -- like, the sound of his voice makes my skin crawl -- but I still agree with this. Rightly or wrongly, he was elected and we deserve the mayor we voted for.

Absolutely. The law is the law and we got what we deserve because there are so many stupid people in our city.

The interesting question is, what do you do with a duly-elected mayor who subsequently disregards the law? If there's no provision for recall and the illegality doesn't provide a basis for removal from office (i.e. it falls short of a criminal sentence), are we really just supposed to sit around and watch the city government grind to a halt until the next election?

 

[Tulse]

what do you do with a duly-elected mayor who subsequently disregards the law? If there's no provision for recall and the illegality doesn't provide a basis for removal from office

What has Ford done that is actually illegal? Yes, he's an idiot and a buffoon and an embarrassment, but he is allowed to make whatever stupid pronouncements he wants.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

What has Ford done that is actually illegal? Yes, he's an idiot and a buffoon and an embarrassment, but he is allowed to make whatever stupid pronouncements he wants.

Totally agreed. I'm speaking hypothetically about what happens if he tries to "do" (or "not do") things in defiance of council resolutions, as he has suggested is his right.

 

[Tulse]

I'm speaking hypothetically about what happens if he tries to "do" (or "not do") things in defiance of council resolutions, as he has suggested is his right.

Sure, but what could he actually do? The province isn't going to write a cheque to him personally that he can refuse to cash, and presumably he isn't going to go tear up LRT tracks with a backhoe. He can bluster all he wants, but I'm not sure what he could actually do in this instance that would be illegal.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Sure, but what could he actually do? The province isn't going to write a cheque to him personally that he can refuse to cash, and presumably he isn't going to go tear up LRT tracks with a backhoe. He can bluster all he wants, but I'm not sure what he could actually do in this instance that would be illegal.

It's probably useless to speculate at this point, but I can imagine him doing something that would clearly exceed his legal mandate. It's like the compliance audit: he seems to have broken the law, but no one is sure what legal recourse there is, because there's no precedent. The integrity commissioner is another good example. Both Fords have openly defied rulings by the integrity commissioner and so far have gotten away with it.

I'm not suggesting that Ford's behaviour has, as yet, provided cause for removal from office (although the evidence isn't all in, yet). The problem is we appear to have a mayor who is willing to disregard even legal sanctions, and we apparently have no ultimate legal recourse (i.e. removal from office) if the mayor's disregard for the law increases.

All that said, I don't like the idea that the premier could unilaterally usurp the authority granted by municipal elections. And I also would not look forward to an endless series of elections and recall referenda. Maybe the best we have is what we've got: city council has the power to emasculate the mayor (figuratively, just to be clear) by denying its support for his initiatives.

 

[EMP1729]

Sure, but what could he actually do? The province isn't going to write a cheque to him personally that he can refuse to cash, and presumably he isn't going to go tear up LRT tracks with a backhoe. He can bluster all he wants, but I'm not sure what he could actually do in this instance that would be illegal.

Well, he could take inspiration from Richard M. Daley, former mayor of Chicago.

 

[Tulse]

It is rather curious that there is no procedure for recall of a mayor (or, I presume, of any city councillor). Has it really never been the case that, for example, a councillor or mayor has committed a felony while in office?

 

[BurlOak]

It is rather curious that there is no procedure for recall of a mayor (or, I presume, of any city councillor). Has it really never been the case that, for example, a councillor or mayor has committed a felony while in office?

I thought it came up federally for a Senator (I think) and there was something about having the position stripped if they had to serve over 2 years in jail (federal prison?)

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

I thought it came up federally for a Senator (I think) and there was something about having the position stripped if they had to serve over 2 years in jail (federal prison?)

Lulz! I just remembered, we don't need to speculate about Ford's potential for lawlessness. The following are the potential penalties upon conviction for the various criminal offenses Rob Ford has been alleged to have committed over the years (that we know of):
- uttering death threats (2008) - up to 5 years in prison
- assault (2008) - up to 5 years in prison
- DUI (2000 (?) in Florida) - up to 6 months in jail
- marijuana possession (2000 (?) in Florida) - up to 6 months in jail

All of that's just an aside, though.

 

[Tulse]

Yeah, but even if he went to prison, it's not clear he (or any other councillor) could be legally stripped of office.