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Rob Ford's Toronto

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BurlOak said:
The Auditor Generals report on the Gas Plant was much more damning than the Ford video and it did not have a large effect. Much of it was known already - the only new thing was that the cost was about 3 or 4 times what the Liberals said (about the same as what the Tories estimated) and the fact that it appeared that Oakville would not change the zoning for the land, in which case the cancellation penalty would have been close to zero - but the Liberals decided that it was preferable to pay the huge penalty rather than trust that the contract language requiring no compensation, but allow TransCanada Corp. to make some political noise.
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It absolutely has had an effect. If Hudak was even a little bit likeable, we would have actually seen it by now.
 
ParkdalePetunia said:
The Sun could bury it in Timbuktu, it wouldn't matter. With the internet, that thing will go viral in minutes.

eta: But honestly it's not going to sway the Ford voters. Literally nothing will. He could publicly admit to everything and go to jail and they would be screaming his innocence and about how great of a mayor he was (with a little bit of "how come those thieving Lieberals weren't sent to jail for stealing our money!" thrown in). It's bullshit, but it's the reality of the situation.
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Do you watch "The Following"?
 
BurlOak said:
The Auditor Generals report on the Gas Plant was much more damning than the Ford video and it did not have a large effect. Much of it was known already - the only new thing was that the cost was about 3 or 4 times what the Liberals said (about the same as what the Tories estimated) and the fact that it appeared that Oakville would not change the zoning for the land, in which case the cancellation penalty would have been close to zero - but the Liberals decided that it was preferable to pay the huge penalty rather than trust that the contract language requiring no compensation, but allow TransCanada Corp. to make some political noise.
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And? The gas plants are immaterial to the here and now. This is about "Mayor Rob Ford's Toronto", if you want to point fingers at a level of government that has squandered billions, look no futher than Harper's crew.
 
lol @ anyone that thinks there's any real difference between the cons and liberals aside from who's better at gaming the shit system we have.
 
BurlOak said:
The Auditor Generals report on the Gas Plant was much more damning than the Ford video and it did not have a large effect. Much of it was known already - the only new thing was that the cost was about 3 or 4 times what the Liberals said (about the same as what the Tories estimated) and the fact that it appeared that Oakville would not change the zoning for the land, in which case the cancellation penalty would have been close to zero - but the Liberals decided that it was preferable to pay the huge penalty rather than trust that the contract language requiring no compensation, but allow TransCanada Corp. to make some political noise.
Click to expand...

This is the big problem with voters right now. Municipal Government and Provincial government are two separate entities, we can't keep on excusing terrible decisions because we feel another level of government has made worse decisions. (I'm not even going to bother going into the gas plant scandal because it has been done to death, no matter how many times pro Ford ppl say that it's been ignored). What the Province did does not excuse Ford's insane behaviour and less than ethical dealings, it doesn't excuse Ford's billion dollar Subway boondoggle, it doesn't excuse Ford's behaviour towards voters, fellow councillors or the Province. This is what is usually referred to as deflection.

JWBF said:
Do you watch "The Following"?
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Nope.

The other day I literally heard someone say "crack doesn't do anything to a person's body, it's perfectly okay". Yup. That's right. Someone excused everything about Ford because "crack is harmless". And then she went on to say that "no one's talking about the gas plant scandal". This is the MO for Ford Nation. They are willing to excuse absolutely everything to justify their bias and then deflect, deflect, deflect. I think every partisan person is guilty of doing this to a degree, but usually there are lines in the sand between acceptable vs non acceptable behaviour that will eventually be crossed. I just don't see where that line could possibly be with these people. And while we keep on focusing on the video scandal and don't attack his policies or the other behaviour surrounding the video scandal (like the ITO mentioning explicitly that Ford was with Lisi at his house when he was scheduled to be at constituent meetings), they can stay in their little bubbles where this is only about Ford using "harmless" crack.
 
Whether or not "crack is harmless", this scandal has caused turmoil at city hall and international embarrassment. Ford nation can't seem to understand that fact.
 
salsa said:
Whether or not "crack is harmless", this scandal has caused turmoil at city hall and international embarrassment. Ford nation can't seem to understand that fact.
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Oh they understand it... they just don't care because it's "Stickin' it to the downtown elites".
 
ParkdalePetunia said:
This is the big problem with voters right now. Municipal Government and Provincial government are two separate entities, we can't keep on excusing terrible decisions because we feel another level of government has made worse decisions. (I'm not even going to bother going into the gas plant scandal because it has been done to death, no matter how many times pro Ford ppl say that it's been ignored). What the Province did does not excuse Ford's insane behaviour and less than ethical dealings, it doesn't excuse Ford's billion dollar Subway boondoggle, it doesn't excuse Ford's behaviour towards voters, fellow councillors or the Province. This is what is usually referred to as deflection.



Nope.

The other day I literally heard someone say "crack doesn't do anything to a person's body, it's perfectly okay". Yup. That's right. Someone excused everything about Ford because "crack is harmless". And then she went on to say that "no one's talking about the gas plant scandal". This is the MO for Ford Nation. They are willing to excuse absolutely everything to justify their bias and then deflect, deflect, deflect. I think every partisan person is guilty of doing this to a degree, but usually there are lines in the sand between acceptable vs non acceptable behaviour that will eventually be crossed. I just don't see where that line could possibly be with these people. And while we keep on focusing on the video scandal and don't attack his policies or the other behaviour surrounding the video scandal (like the ITO mentioning explicitly that Ford was with Lisi at his house when he was scheduled to be at constituent meetings), they can stay in their little bubbles where this is only about Ford using "harmless" crack.
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+1,000,000.
 
BTW, more than a little amused by the backlash against Soknacki's Scarborough LRT announcement. IMHO, it's 'now that we've won the debate, it shouldn't be re-opened' by subway transit enthusiasts and Ford supporters alike. Soknacki, with his 'largest tax cut in Toronto history' line, is focusing on a part of the debate Ford deliberately obfuscated: the huge extra cost. It's a good attack on Ford's claims of no tax increases, and opens up the next line of attack on costs/funding. I bet the DRL/Don Mills LRT gets a place in his platform soon, paid for by the savings on Scarsub.

If I'm Soknacki, it goes sort of like this -- which would you rather have? A smooth ride all the way to the core, or a crappy ride that dumps you at Bloor/Yonge to be added to the sardines, IF you can get on a train?

And the cost side looks like this: Ford spent $300 million of reserves in his first year. I put away that money for an emergency, like the ice storm, and he spent it on cops and no tax increase.

I think we'll be hearing from Soknacki all the way to October.
 
ParkdalePetunia said:
The other day I literally heard someone say "crack doesn't do anything to a person's body, it's perfectly okay". Yup. That's right. Someone excused everything about Ford because "crack is harmless".
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I'm sure my brother-in-law's sister, who died of a crack cocaine overdose, will be happy to hear that.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
BTW, more than a little amused by the backlash against Soknacki's Scarborough LRT announcement. IMHO, it's 'now that we've won the debate, it shouldn't be re-opened' by subway transit enthusiasts and Ford supporters alike. Soknacki, with his 'largest tax cut in Toronto history' line, is focusing on a part of the debate Ford deliberately obfuscated: the huge extra cost. It's a good attack on Ford's claims of no tax increases, and opens up the next line of attack on costs/funding. I bet the DRL/Don Mills LRT gets a place in his platform soon, paid for by the savings on Scarsub.

If I'm Soknacki, it goes sort of like this -- which would you rather have? A smooth ride all the way to the core, or a crappy ride that dumps you at Bloor/Yonge to be added to the sardines, IF you can get on a train?

And the cost side looks like this: Ford spent $300 million of reserves in his first year. I put away that money for an emergency, like the ice storm, and he spent it on cops and no tax increase.

I think we'll be hearing from Soknacki all the way to October.
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"David Socks" is being very effective in changing the tune of debate - funny that Ford is avoiding engaging the debate on the costs of the Subway...
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
BTW, more than a little amused by the backlash against Soknacki's Scarborough LRT announcement. IMHO, it's 'now that we've won the debate, it shouldn't be re-opened' by subway transit enthusiasts and Ford supporters alike. Soknacki, with his 'largest tax cut in Toronto history' line, is focusing on a part of the debate Ford deliberately obfuscated: the huge extra cost. It's a good attack on Ford's claims of no tax increases, and opens up the next line of attack on costs/funding. I bet the DRL/Don Mills LRT gets a place in his platform soon, paid for by the savings on Scarsub.
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He can't call it the 'largest tax cut in Toronto history' if he's simply going to reallocate the money to his own favourite project.
 
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