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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Torontovibe said:
When I asked him if he knows the cost difference in building subways, LRT and streetcar, he said the cost was about the same for all three. (which of course, we all know is wrong) He wants to see subways built in Scarborough and not downtown, which he thinks has too many subways already. Here is the kicker, when I asked him, when do you use public transit, he replied, NEVER! SO why does he want subways? Because Ford says streetcars will get in the way of his huge car and slow down traffic. Subways run underground, so he can avoid them. It's like this guy was brainwashed at the Rob Ford training camp.
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It is so hilarious, and sad, when Fordites reveal their near-complete lack of familiarity with existing transit. I've seen his supporters insist on points regarding where subways should be built and how they should be funded, but when they're pressed on details of where transit is currently congested or asked whether they would ride the subway they're advocating, they'll say things like 'I never take transit' or (I'm not making this one up) 'I do not ride with the unwashed'. So basically they feel entitled to dictate where and how others should get around even if they themselves know nothing of the experience

What I'm curious about is how does a well educated person get so badly informed? He does not watch Sun TV or read the Toronto Sun. He does not listen to talk radio. In fact he does not watch or listen to any English language media. All the media he watches, hears and reads is Chinese. He hates Olivia Chow and David Miller yet he does not know why but he tells me, everybody at his Chinese church, hates them too. Was he brainwashed at church? How does somebody who watches no English media get these views and so badly informed about the issues? Are there Chinese right wing media outlets spewing Ford's toxic views and misinformation?

I have talked to 4 friends/acquaintances, who all seem to be rational, intelligent people, yet they support Ford. After discussing the issues it was clearly apparent that all of them were badly informed. Is that just coincidence? It amazes me to see what hoops people will jump through, to justify voting for Ford. In the end, when you present a credible argument about something one would think is indefensible, like Ford buying drugs from thugs or driving drunk, they just say, "I don't care". If these people were high school drop outs working at McDonald's, I could understand but these people are all well educated, very well paid professionals. Seriously, it's just mind blowing and frustrating to see that people like this, still support Ford and think he's a "nice guy".
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I think a lot of people avoid exposure to the media, especially print media, because reading opinion pieces and editorials actually confuses them. As in, news, sports, entertainment and weather are factual information ... but what's this other stuff? Why are there two or more articles in which people say different things about the same subject? Aren't newspapers supposed to write what I expect to see and what confirms my bias?

Many people also lack the curiosity to find out what is actually happening in politics and what different politicians stand for. It's much easier to go along with opinions you pick up from friends and never question them. Then when you've picked up your off-the-rack opinion, don't worry about defending it when you're being challenged on it, because that's too much mental effort.

People like this are actually living in the world of Orwell's 1984, with its 'rubbishy newspapers containing almost nothing except sport, crime and astrology'.
 
Torontovibe said:
What I find so surprising is how strongly he defended Ford and how badly informed he was. This is a guy who seems very concerned with lower taxes, yet he wants more subways built in Scarborough. When I asked him if he knows the cost difference in building subways, LRT and streetcar, he said the cost was about the same for all three. (which of course, we all know is wrong)..
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That just makes me sad. Seriously, how can people not see that subways would cost significantly more

With people like this voting it's no surprise Ford got elected.

Unfortunately your incident isn't unusual. I know several otherwise intelligent people who still support Ford. Sometimes it's hard to keep cool while talking sense into them.
 
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Pickles said:
How so? Lisi is not on trial for meeting with Ford and exchanging packages. Or drinking in a park. He's on trial for selling drugs to a drycleaner. Ford was not involved in this at all. If Lisi pleads guilty, there is no "evidence" because there is no trial. A guilty plea does not somehow give a stamp of authenticity to the police surveillance document. Lisi might be required to admit he sold the drugs or used extortion to get the video but that's all.

And if Lisi goes to trial, how would he "incriminate" Ford? His interaction with Ford has nothing to do with the current charges against him. It is irrelevant to the trial. It simply was used to get a search warrant (and, quite likely, expose some of the mayor's erratic and possibly criminal behaviour to public scrutiny).

ISTM that there is a lot of wild speculation going on (understandably, given the wild events of the past 8 months) and people are mistakenly assuming that a trial would bring up evidence about Ford and that a non-trial would change the status of the police document from allegations to fact. Neither is true. This is Lisi's trial on narrow charges. He has NOT been charged with drunk driving, peeing in a parking lot, taking drugs, selling drugs to the mayor, showing up drunk in public, etc., etc. The allegations by the police respecting these matters will not be "proven in court" because they will not be brought up as part of the evidence against Lisi's drug dealing in the strip mall nor the extortion respecting the video.

The video may not even be made public at the trial. That's a call for the prosecutor. He/she must prove only that Lisi used extortion/threats to attempt to recovery "a video". The content of the video may not be particularly necessary to reveal to prove extortion. And even if the video is shown, hasn't it already done whatever damage to Ford's repuatation that it's going to do? The video of Ford ranting came and went pretty quickly from the public eye. The sorry truth of the Ford saga is that there are so many shameful, volatile, stupid things he's done that the shock value has worn off.

Unless Lisi helps the police in its investigation of Ford or the police finally uncover sufficient evidence to charge Ford, Lisi's trial/guilty plea will be a big yawn.
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He was also brought in on extortion charges...
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
That's how I read it. As soon as everyone hears he's at a club, they want to know if he was caught drinking.
If nobody saw him drink (and I haven't heard anybody who did), he and Doug can say, "Look, he's cured!" I thought Jim Coyle's amazing essay about alcoholism a couple of weeks ago in The Star did a good job addressing how an addict can (as Ford has), quit cold turkey for a while without actually solving anything. But people looking for an excuse to support him will definitely point to Saturday night as proof he's totally on the wagon. And losing weight, too!

EDITED: Because I should have read this first...
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/12/mayor-rob-ford-sets-social-media-abuzz-with-nightclub-stop


There you go. Also, "The Bieber"?
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Doug is trying to play this off like it was campaigning---if not a planned appearance then at least Rob getting out among "the people." Some are saying they didn't see him drink anything, but based on his past behaviour, that is utterly immaterial. More importantly, consider the two red flags here: 1) no handlers 2) no magnets.
 
SFO said:
Doug is trying to play this off like it was campaigning---if not a planned appearance then at least Rob getting out among "the people." Some are saying they didn't see him drink anything, but based on his past behaviour, that is utterly immaterial. More importantly, consider the two red flags here: 1) no handlers 2) no magnets.
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He did go to a planned appearance for a dance thing earlier. Showing up at the club didn't seem to be 'planned', since the Muzik owners posted it in a surprised way. But maybe it was a business thing, to take about their application.
 
I'm following Don Peat and Daniel Dale's tweets and getting angry all over again. Ford is acting like a total asshole at council. Again.
 
Wow councillors fill out expense reports using pen and paper. What century do they think it is down at city hall?
 
Ford got up to speak, councillors started challenging his hypocrisy (e.g. he said Toronto would be the first to send emergency help anywhere that asked, and he was asked about particular situations that he was against), Ford started attacking (councillors weren't doing anything during the ice storm because he didn't see them), and so on. Permutations on the usual.
 
I'm seeing some comments on social media along the lines of "since Alex Rodriguez was banned from baseball for a year for drug use, why can't Mayor Ford also be banned"?
 
dienw said:
Ford got up to speak, councillors started challenging his hypocrisy (e.g. he said Toronto would be the first to send emergency help anywhere that asked, and he was asked about particular situations that he was against), Ford started attacking (councillors weren't doing anything during the ice storm because he didn't see them), and so on. Permutations on the usual.
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That's like saying that because one didn't see a spot check when you drove your car on New Year's Eve, there weren't any spot checks happening then. Toronto is a big city.

I didn't lose power nor did the trees come down on my street. That does not mean that there were problems (and councillors) elsewhere.

What does Rob want? A council meeting to gather around a tree that fell down? That is not doing council's work.
 
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