Rob Ford's Toronto

[Marko]

I'm not that familiar with how the project is going. Rob Ford was taking credit for it during the election ... so I don't see how ancient history has any bearing. What is status now? Presumably with with 2 Fords running the show, it will be moving quickly.

The question was about Doug Ford specifically (see above by W.K.Lis.) to which you asked how Woodbine Live was going. I was clarifying that Doug had nothing at all to do with Woodbine, so your linking him to it is rather weak sophistry. It stalled in 2009 when the global financial meltdown hit and the players involved included those I listed above, including the current mayor Ford and as has been pointed out, the previous mayor Miller.

If there's a financial shortage in the city, is Doug supposed to try to sell land that doesn't belong to the city, or look at new ways to work with the under used land the city actually has at its disposal?

 

[GraphicMatt]

Woodbine is being brought up because it's a project that was presented under very similar terms as this Port Lands stuff: private sector investment, won't cost the city a dime, will be done quickly & efficiently, and create jobs and drive tourism.

The City offered more than a billion dollars in tax breaks. Now, several years later, not much has happened.

Doug is promising that his private sector partners can deliver a Port Lands development in six years. History shows that maybe we shouldn't trust him.

 

[Marko]

Woodbine is being brought up because it's a project that was presented under very similar terms as this Port Lands stuff: private sector investment, won't cost the city a dime, will be done quickly & efficiently, and create jobs and drive tourism.

The City offered more than a billion dollars in tax breaks. Now, several years later, not much has happened.

Doug is promising that his private sector partners can deliver a Port Lands development in six years. History shows that maybe we shouldn't trust him.

Fair enough, but I think you're putting it in a different way than nfitz intended to.

I completely concede that a 6 year completion time is probably more wishful than realistic, but I'm still going to wait until more is known before blasting the whole concept simply because of who is bringing it to the table. Lot's of Rob's detractors have been saying that it's really Doug that runs the company, so perhaps he really is the one that really should be on Build Toronto and putting deals together?

I drove by Woodbine last week and nothing has been don yet, but I also recall reading an update at SSC that ground leveling is supposed to start this fall. Will see if I can find out more info, but can also state that I have seen some recent RFQ for lighting that to my understanding, would be at Woodbine Live. Maybe it's about to get back into gear, but no one should be holding their breath, of course.

 

[PinkLucy]

I don't think blasting the concept is so much about who is bringing it to the table as it is about the concept itself.

 

[nfitz]

Fair enough, but I think you're putting it in a different way than nfitz intended to.

No ... your just choosing to read it in ways I've intended.

I'd like to criticize the project - but I really don't know much about it, and don't drive that way often. How is construction going? What is built so far - how much is delayed? First I'm hearing of troubles ... haven't paid much attention ... but it becomes important, because surely it is the template that is being used by the Fords for Portlands.

 

[Marko]

I don't think blasting the concept is so much about who is bringing it to the table as it is about the concept itself.

See, that's where I completely disagree.

Imagine we heard rumors of some portlands developments being accelerated. That some well regarded architects were involved and that by using the revenues generated by the deals we could not only take away the fiscal gap that is in place - keeping every library and park and hobby farm open - but also help pay for other things that are lagging. Imagine if it was done not by a Ford, but by his opponents on council as a way to take away the "gravy cuts" and put and end to the partisan bickering that's going on.

Imagine it was Kristin Wong Tam who came up with the idea. Would it have garnered the same backlash?

 

[PinkLucy]

I'm talking about the proposed waterfront concept -- ferris wheels and mega malls. I don't care who proposed it. I think it's horrid.

 

[Marko]

I'm talking about the proposed waterfront concept -- ferris wheels and mega malls. I don't care who proposed it. I think it's horrid.

I can't say I care much for a ferris wheel or the term mega mall either, but I also don't generally jump to the worst conclusions about things either. I do think that to many, opposition to anything that comes from either Ford is the automatic response.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I'd very much support a city-led effort to work with Waterfront Toronto and find ways to unlock future revenues and get things moving more quickly in the Port Lands. That is not what this is.

Even what you're proposing, where the city uses this strategy to build revenues to fund further development, is way off the mark. The top priority of the mayor and his brother is and alway has been to find ways to stabilize the city budget, eliminate the Land Transfer Tax and facilitate property tax freezes in subsequent budget years. That is what this plan is about.

 

[EMP1729]

The way I see it, is Doug's vision is like this: http://www.broadwayatthebeach.com/

Ironically or perhaps fittingly, this isn't located near the beach. I'll admit, it appeals to some people, and the Ford Bros. would enjoy themselves there. But this doesn't belong in a city like Toronto. Myrtle Beach - yes. Woodbine Live is, actually, perfect for such a thing. Dougie should go focus his attention on that.

Also, I think we need to change the title of the thread to: Co-Mayors Rob and Doug Ford's Toronto

 

[jje1000]

I can't say I care much for a ferris wheel or the term mega mall either, but I also don't generally jump to the worst conclusions about things either. I do think that to many, opposition to anything that comes from either Ford is the automatic response.

Most of what Ford proposes has not ended up well. Private Sector Sheppard? Provincial handout. Transparent government? Totally opaque. Gravy? Little to be found. I think most people have the right to be highly suspicious of what he proposes.

 

[nfitz]

See, that's where I completely disagree.

Imagine we heard rumors of some portlands developments being accelerated. That some well regarded architects were involved and that by using the revenues generated by the deals we could not only take away the fiscal gap that is in place - keeping every library and park and hobby farm open - but also help pay for other things that are lagging. Imagine if it was done not by a Ford, but by his opponents on council as a way to take away the "gravy cuts" and put and end to the partisan bickering that's going on.

Imagine it was Kristin Wong Tam who came up with the idea. Would it have garnered the same backlash?

That isn't the issue though. New project on the Unwin street property. Okay ... let's see the plans.

However, this also seems to be trying to reverse 10-years of planning on the West Donlands and East Bayfront. That's the issue ... not the architects, etc.

You need to focus on the issue, rather than being distracted by the shiny objects that are put there to distract from the issue.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

However, this also seems to be trying to reverse 10-years of planning on the West Donlands and East Bayfront. That's the issue ... not the architects, etc.

This is new, I think. I don't believe the Brothers Ford are planning on changing WDL nor the Hines plans. Nor even the Citizen stuff. This is about accelerating the south of Lake Shore, east of Cherry plans. Still asinine, but let's be fair in our criticism.

 

[grey]

Pssst... over here..

http://ylife.news.yorku.ca/2011/05/...h-on-developer-donations-looks-at-mayor-ford/

 

[Gavin]

See, that's where I completely disagree.

Imagine we heard rumors of some portlands developments being accelerated. That some well regarded architects were involved and that by using the revenues generated by the deals we could not only take away the fiscal gap that is in place - keeping every library and park and hobby farm open - but also help pay for other things that are lagging. Imagine if it was done not by a Ford, but by his opponents on council as a way to take away the "gravy cuts" and put and end to the partisan bickering that's going on.

Imagine it was Kristin Wong Tam who came up with the idea. Would it have garnered the same backlash?

I wouldn't care if my wife was on council and proposed it, if it included a 1.5 million sq ft mall, the world's largest Ferris wheel, and a monorail I'd be equally furious.