Rob Ford's Toronto

[adma]

Suppose someone who speaks only Spanish decides to visit Dr. Nick. Dr. Nick does not speak good Spanish, especially given that "Espanol" is missing a tilde over the "n." Not just that, but it is ungrammatical (it reads "Self [he] speaks Spanish" or more freely, "He speaks Spanish himself" but with the wrong conjugation) (note that I cannot read Spanish, have no formal education in Spanish, and am barely exposed to Spanish outside of comparative linguistics, but can notice grammatical errors in it). It should read on the ad: "HABLO ESPAÑOL" ( speak Spanish). Therefore, the Spanish speaker has the right to be suspicious of Dr. Nick.

Not that a similar circumstance hurt Ford any.

 

[guitarchitect]

People with different views vs. Elitism(racism)

Different views:
Person a: I like blue
Person b: I like red
A+b= well I guess we can compromise with green

Elitism(racism):
Person a: I like blue
Person b: I like red
Person a: you are stupid for not liking blue. You don't know any better you should like blue. Its OK well do blue and you'll understand.

Person A: I like blue
Person B: I like red because the people that like blue are annoying
Me: Are you sure that's a good reason to like red? You're allowed to like a different color...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

pw20:

I don't really question your interpretation of Protestant reformer interpretation - at the same time though, are the Ford populists any less willing to tell others what is good for them than the "downtown elites"? Ditto Harper - whose capacity to talk down to the segment of the electorate deemed unessential to the maintenance of his power is quite well documented.

AoD

 

[pw20]

pw20:

I don't really question your interpretation of Protestant reformer interpretation - at the same time though, are the Ford populists any less willing to tell others what is good for them than the "downtown elites"? Ditto Harper - whose capacity to talk down to the segment of the electorate deemed unessential to the maintenance of his power is quite well documented.

AoD

A couple of points:
1) Ford has a 30% base (let's say) what toppled him was reactionary - I'm sick of being talked down to by Miller, so to answer your question - maybe you're right that the right talks
2) The Right does a better job at "talking down" while making it sound like they're talking up. I mean Rob Ford's entire shtick is "i'm a regular Joe who goes to Timmy Ho's, when he's just as rich as a downtown elite. Think of how Iggy always got skewered for being a Rosedale elite etc... Yes - a critical thinker would say: wait a minute, this guy was given a company, has never had to work a day in his life etc... The same is true for a significant amount of the Republican base - while Sarah Palin was talking about Joe the Plumber she was buying Louboutin shoes and certainly the Bush family isn't poor by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with the ideology of our left of centre parties, I just don't think our leftist leaders have done a great job of as neatly putting their policies together without alienating anyone outside of their core. (This seems to be changing with Trudeau on a federal level, but who knows).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

pw20:

I don't disagree with the gist of your argument, I am just poking holes at the farcical nature of the rhetoric - and it is interesting you've raised the whole disconnect between the Rob Ford/Palin type faux-joe-blow elitism. Personally I think the appeal is aspirational - that somehow the populace buying into it are the ones who think they will win the lottery jackpot (or being the 1/100th that will climb up the social ladder to said heights). Doesn't change the fact that most of them belong to the social category (lower/lower middle class) that is suffering from the most erosion, and will remain there for the rest of their lives.

I think left-of-centre parties are at an inherit disadvantage when it comes to messaging - at a fundamental level any policy requiring redistribution runs against short-term self-interest, and it is fundamentally susceptible to emotional manipulation. On the flip side, it falls prey to shallow populism (hello, NDP) that is more interested in providing short-term, money in the pocket goodies without any consideration towards balance and sustainability.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

I agree with the ideology of our left of centre parties, I just don't think our leftist leaders have done a great job of as neatly putting their policies together without alienating anyone outside of their core.

I think it is exactly the opposite -- the conservatives in North America have focussed almost exclusively on their "base", who have demanded ideological purity, and as a result their has been almost no interest in building coalitions or any sort of common cause with those who are more liberal.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I'd much rather live in a world where people elect populists like Ford than one in which "smart" people tell me what to do, how to dress, and what music to listen to.

Well, you should be happy, because that is the world we are living in. If you think the inmates running the asylum is something to be happy about. Clearly there is such a thing as too much democracy when someone like Rob Ford is elected. Democracy requires some responsibility on the part of those practicing it.

I didn't mean people literally telling you what to do....I mean back when trends were influenced by those most knowledgable about...whatever. The cream rose to the top and the average person could recognize it. If you are wondering why we haven't been able to come up with anything new in the last 30 years, it is do in large part by the fact that "elite" has become a dirty word.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but it is not to continue catering to this trend.

 

[Grimace]

I'd much rather live in a world where people elect populists like Ford than one in which "smart" people tell me what to do, how to dress, and what music to listen to.

By which you mean, you'd much rather live in a world where the people elect some pink faced halfwit (to borrow a phrase) whose candidacy is financed by and whose policies are at least intended to support the economic elite on the false pretense that he is "just an average joe".

 

[doady]

I can't think of a better man to serve the interests of the "average Joe" than an obese basehead who inherited millions of dollars from his dad. That's blue collar yo.

 

[J-Funk]

I didn't mean people literally telling you what to do....I mean back when trends were influenced by those most knowledgable about...whatever. The cream rose to the top and the average person could recognize it. If you are wondering why we haven't been able to come up with anything new in the last 30 years, it is do in large part by the fact that "elite" has become a dirty word.

I think the idea that such a time actually existed is a product of nostalgia rather than fact. Which ever time period you would pick as fitting that criteria I'm sure you could find multiple people that were writing in that time about how horrible it was then and how much better it was in an earlier age because the mundane fades out of history over time but you can't ignore it in the present.

I don't think I understand your point about there being nothing new in the last 30 years, could you explain it because I'm pretty sure there are many thing we use every day now that most people 30 years wouldn't have imagined.

 

[typezed]

If you are wondering why we haven't been able to come up with anything new in the last 30 years, it is do in large part by the fact that "elite" has become a dirty word.

Yeah, I was just being nostalgic with the buddies about those crazy hand held mobile phones with the real time video communication from the other side of the world that we had back in high school in the late 70s.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

I think more specifically the problem is that the pejorative word “elite†has come to refer to those of higher taste and intellect, rather than those of higher economic privilege. Like Fran Lebowitz said in Public Speaking, "When [Americans say] ‘elite,’ they don't mean rich—America loves rich people—they mean smart.†Thus, someone like Ford is popularly considered a plebeian for his bottom-of-the-barrel intellect, taste, opinions, etc., while someone who has much less money than Ford but whose subjectivity is based in a university education and who is more informed than most people is considered elite. This is the disaster that is our popular conception of elitism.

 

[jusbokeh]

I think more specifically the problem is that the pejorative word “elite” has come to refer to those of higher taste and intellect, rather than those of higher economic privilege. Like Fran Lebowitz said in Public Speaking, "When [Americans say] ‘elite,’ they don't mean rich—America loves rich people—they mean smart.” Thus, someone like Ford is popularly considered a plebeian for his bottom-of-the-barrel intellect, taste, opinions, etc., while someone who has much less money than Ford but whose subjectivity is based in a university education and who is more informed than most people is considered elite. This is the disaster that is our popular conception of elitism.

which is why the argument ive heard repeatedly that Rob Ford is rich doesn't resonate with voters. Rob Ford is a millionaire but he is rejected by the wealthy because he is a simpleton.

how many millionaires drove a $8000 Pontiac minivan (until his brother bought him an escalade)?

Does John Tory or Miller have black friends and i dont mean the Barack Obama black

Do millionaires let a Moroccan immigrant live with their family for almost a decade? http://torontoist.com/2013/03/the-rob-and-doug-ford-radio-recap/

 

[Tulse]

Do millionaires hang out with drug gangs?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think more specifically the problem is that the pejorative word “elite” has come to refer to those of higher taste and intellect, rather than those of higher economic privilege. Like Fran Lebowitz said in Public Speaking, "When [Americans say] ‘elite,’ they don't mean rich—America loves rich people—they mean smart.” Thus, someone like Ford is popularly considered a plebeian for his bottom-of-the-barrel intellect, taste, opinions, etc., while someone who has much less money than Ford but whose subjectivity is based in a university education and who is more informed than most people is considered elite. This is the disaster that is our popular conception of elitism.

You're spot on.

If we really do live in a society where intelligence and rational thought is looked down upon, we really do have some serious issues.