Rob Ford's Toronto

[JWBF]

Oh really!? You don't say. The unfunded Scarborough Subway isn't coming. Wow! What a surprise.

This Scarborough Subway was just Ford's attempt to cancel the Sheppard LRT.

Easy now, I agree with you on this subway boondoggle, we all now it was to pander votes. Only if the feds come across with at least $1Bn will anything start to happen.

Note: Cynicism can act like a scalpal if wielded properly, if not then you just get a bloody mess.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Easy now, I agree with you on this subway boondoggle, we all now it was to pander votes. Only if the feds come across with at least $1Bn will anything start to happen.

Note: Cynicism can act like a scalpal if wielded properly, if not then you just get a bloody mess.

Well Council instructed that at least $1.8 Billion must come from Ontario. They've said they're only giving us $1.4 Billion. And Metrolinx is continuing work on the project. That basically means that the subway is dead, even if the feds make up the $400 Million deficit.

And I apoligize to anyone I may have offended with my cynicism. It's just trying to say that nobody should be surprised.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Also, where is Coxwell station? And - while I understand that it's not to scale - it feels wrong to not show that Don Mills station is actually aligned with Woodbine (as opposed to Pape).

I've shown in a black box the extent of new subway he proposed if he had respected the relative east-west dimensions of the two lines:

Also, his map wrongly gives the impression that a very significant portion of the subway system is downtown - when in reality most of Toronto's subway system is well outside the core.

The level of incompetence shown in this graph alone should deem Ford's opinion on transit inconsequential. I'm sure most of us in this board could make a better graph than that... for free!

So basically Ford was either misleading the voters or totally incompetent. Why am I not surprised?

 

[adma]

IMO this is how Ford has been able to keep up his support. Ford is the populist-politician, one perfectly evolved to today's world, where politics no longer dominates, but is simply another topic vying for your attention.

Well, it isn't just politics that no longer dominates: it's traditional news media. Or at least, that which isn't wrapped up in "sports", "entertainment", "supermarket flyers", etc.

IOW he's aping/delivering a Toronto Sun party line to a demo which can't even be bothered w/the Sun anymore--or at least, the boring "editorial page" stuff. They aren't Sun readers; they aren't Star readers; they aren't Globe or Post readers. Maybe they would have been 40 or 30 or 20 years ago; not today. They're too busy, er, working hard and earning their keep to bother showing they're reeeal smart by consuming daily newspapers. But they're "hearing about" these papers from Boss Ford...and being reminded of how they, indeed, are "right" in their post-newspaper habits. Better to be contentedly "ignorant" than a politically-correct pointy-headed know-it-all...

 

[freshcutgrass]

IOW he's aping/delivering a Toronto Sun party line to a demo which can't even be bothered w/the Sun anymore--or at least, the boring "editorial page" stuff. They aren't Sun readers; they aren't Star readers; they aren't Globe or Post readers. Maybe they would have been 40 or 30 or 20 years ago; not today. They're too busy, er, working hard and earning their keep to bother showing they're reeeal smart by consuming daily newspapers.

But conservative thinking minds require what they "know" to be repeatedly regurgitated back to them, and the most effective way to do that is to tune into Newstalk 1010 as often as possible (preferably all day).

You know...that radio station that loves Rob Ford...where Rob Ford has his own show. Oh yea...it's also the same station where John Tory has a show. The same John Tory that supported Rob Ford.

You all might want to think about that while you're [foaming] over how wonderful it would be if John Tory were mayor.

 

[GenerationW]

Well Council instructed that at least $1.8 Billion must come from Ontario. They've said they're only giving us $1.4 Billion. And Metrolinx is continuing work on the project. That basically means that the subway is dead, even if the feds make up the $400 Million deficit.

I can't believe you really believe all that.

The subway won't be decided until the relevant parties meet behind closed doors and either agree to fund it or don't agree. Politics as usual.

 

[nfitz]

The subway won't be decided until the relevant parties meet behind closed doors and either agree to fund it or don't agree. Politics as usual.

I agree. But council now has the hurdle of the 2/3 vote requirement to cross as well, if they want re-open debate to waive the $1.8 billion. That would take 30 votes, and they only had 28 votes, including former councillor Holyday.

 

[JWBF]

Well Council instructed that at least $1.8 Billion must come from Ontario. They've said they're only giving us $1.4 Billion. And Metrolinx is continuing work on the project. That basically means that the subway is dead, even if the feds make up the $400 Million deficit.

And I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my cynicism. It's just trying to say that nobody should be surprised.

In actuality, the three station subway (that would need a station at Brimely & Eglinton) would cost ~4Bn, all in, so 400Mn would leave Toronto with ~800Mn to find.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I can't believe you really believe all that.

The subway won't be decided until the relevant parties meet behind closed doors and either agree to fund it or don't agree. Politics as usual.

No. That is what council decided in their vote. It doesn't matter if the feds make up the $400 Million deficit. Council was very clear in their vote. $1.8 Billion must come from Ontario.

Now that doesn't mean that things can't change. If the feds were to offer to make up the $400 Million deficit, Council could meet again to decide if they want to accept the money. But that would take 2/3 support of Council, and I'm not confident at all that it would pass.

I really think this thing was set up to fail from the beginning. It should have been be fairly obvious that it was highly unlikely that neither the feds nor province would want to be involved in the project.

 

[adma]

But conservative thinking minds require what they "know" to be repeatedly regurgitated back to them, and the most effective way to do that is to tune into Newstalk 1010 as often as possible (preferably all day).

You know...that radio station that loves Rob Ford...where Rob Ford has his own show. Oh yea...it's also the same station where John Tory has a show. The same John Tory that supported Rob Ford.

You all might want to think about that while you're masturbating over how wonderful it would be if John Tory were mayor.

Actually, even 1010's part of the media can which, uh, taxpayers "can't be bothered with" anymore...

 

[Adjei]

I doubt if the full amount of money for the subway, that it won]'t get built. I think right now it doesn't matter where the money comes from as long as it gets the full amount to begin construction.

 

[freshcutgrass]

On the campaign, Ford endlessly talked about the hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars he'd be able to save Toronto without cutting a single service.

The amount quoted in his "fiscal plan" was actually a $1.7 billion surplus in his first term.
25% would go towards program and service improvements
25% would go towards reserve fund
50% would go towards debt repayment.

He was also going to reduce the capital budget by $250 million, but still manage to put another $750 million towards debt repayment by selling $1 billion in city assets ($250 million per year X 4 years).

 

[syn]

The amount quoted in his "fiscal plan" was actually a $1.7 billion surplus in his first term.
25% would go towards program and service improvements
25% would go towards reserve fund
50% would go towards debt repayment.

He was also going to reduce the capital budget by $250 million, but still manage to put another $750 million towards debt repayment by selling $1 billion in city assets ($250 million per year X 4 years).

If I recall it was $1.7 billion in 'sustainable savings' in his first few years in office.

 

[freshcutgrass]

If I recall it was $1.7 billion in 'sustainable savings' in his first few years in office.

According to his fiscal plan, it was "net surpluses" in his 4 year term.

Almost all of it would have to come from the last 3 years, as he planned only a $22.6 million surplus in his 2011 budget. This was calculated by taking the estimated 2011 budget "hole" of $503 million, and reducing city spending by $525.6 million in 2011.

Reduced spending (lower taxes)
Increased programs and services
Higher reserve funds
Lower debt
100 kms of bike paths
New subways running by 2015
No VRT
No LTT
Better roads/parking


How Rob Ford didn't manage to get 100% of the vote is beyond my ability to comprehend. Do you people have something against utopia or something?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If I recall it was $1.7 billion in 'sustainable savings' in his first few years in office.

And what the heck does that mean. That's a fairly ambiguous term.